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Creationists hate this Catholic 
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Post Creationists hate this Catholic
Biologist Kenneth Miller receives the prestigious Laetare Medal.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... stand.html


His book Finding Darwin's God is an excellent read and I highly recommend it.

http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Darwins-G ... kCode=as2&


Richard Dawkins actually recommends it in The God Delusion.
(yes, I read TGD)



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Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:44 pm
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Post Re: Creationists hate this Catholic
Well, Dawkins doesn't exactly recommend Miller's book. He recommends it for Creationists who have been led astray by Intelligent Design proponent Michael Behe. Miller's book is about how to reconcile the conflict many people see between God and evolution. Personally, I don't see a conflict. :-)


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Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:19 pm
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Post Re: Creationists hate this Catholic
geo wrote:
Well, Dawkins doesn't exactly recommend Miller's book. He recommends it for Creationists who have been led astray by Intelligent Design proponent Michael Behe. Miller's book is about how to reconcile the conflict many people see between God and evolution. Personally, I don't see a conflict. :-)


At the risk of getting a reply from ant, I think there is very much a conflict. Sure you can say that God set evolution in motion. But most people who are trying to make this argument also are arguing for some kind of "soul" that makes humans special. But that thought experiment from Dawkins reveals the problem -- make a stack of pictures with each ancestor on top of the one before. Each one gave birth to the same species, but go back far enough and you've got a fish. (Ant doesn't like saying it was a fish, even though he says he accepts evolution, so how about a much more primitive species.) There was no first human. So when was the soul put in?



Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:26 pm
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Post Re: Creationists hate this Catholic
It's true that the Catholic Church doesn't oppose evolution, which is a good thing for all. As far as I know, the church doesn't agitate about the way evolution is taught in schools, even though it teaches theistic evolution, which is not part of the science. I do see a conflict here, for the reason Dexter stated, but theistic evolution is better than denial of it.



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Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:04 pm
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Post Re: Creationists hate this Catholic
What I meant, in an intentionally flippant way, is that since I don't believe in God, I don't see a conflict. My mother who is a devout Catholic once told me that she just didn't get why people had a problem with evolution. That's simply how God made the world. What more explanation do you need?

Put another way, if you hold an ideology that is in conflict with science, the conflict is in your head. So we can spend a lot of time trying to appease people who are creating their own problems, but it's not going to do any good anyway unless you deal with the ideology that's causing the conflict in the first place.

On anther thread I made the comment that if you wish to learn about history, your religious affiliation or lack thereof, shouldn't come into play at all. Something is very wrong if your reading of history is being filtered through outdated Catholic dogma. The same goes for science. Evolution is 100 percent the domain of science. Even the Catholic Church accepts this as of about two or three popes ago.

I saw this on another forum in response to the Nye-Ham debate. I think it's well worth repeating.

"Anyone who uses Science to disprove God, or the Bible to disprove Science has greatly misjudged the purpose of both."


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Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:39 pm
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Post Re: Creationists hate this Catholic
Dexter wrote:
At the risk of getting a reply from ant, I think there is very much a conflict. Sure you can say that God set evolution in motion. But most people who are trying to make this argument also are arguing for some kind of "soul" that makes humans special. But that thought experiment from Dawkins reveals the problem -- make a stack of pictures with each ancestor on top of the one before. Each one gave birth to the same species, but go back far enough and you've got a fish. (Ant doesn't like saying it was a fish, even though he says he accepts evolution, so how about a much more primitive species.) There was no first human. So when was the soul put in?


Our concept of the soul comes from the Greeks. Not just the Greeks, the ancient Greeks. I think it's time to embrace our inner fish.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ancient-soul/


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Post Re: Creationists hate this Catholic
Dexter wrote:
geo wrote:
Well, Dawkins doesn't exactly recommend Miller's book. He recommends it for Creationists who have been led astray by Intelligent Design proponent Michael Behe. Miller's book is about how to reconcile the conflict many people see between God and evolution. Personally, I don't see a conflict. :-)


At the risk of getting a reply from ant, I think there is very much a conflict. Sure you can say that God set evolution in motion. But most people who are trying to make this argument also are arguing for some kind of "soul" that makes humans special. But that thought experiment from Dawkins reveals the problem -- make a stack of pictures with each ancestor on top of the one before. Each one gave birth to the same species, but go back far enough and you've got a fish. (Ant doesn't like saying it was a fish, even though he says he accepts evolution, so how about a much more primitive species.) There was no first human. So when was the soul put in?


youre not wired for a soul, Dexter.
youre humanity's exemplar of wired perfection - wired for disbelief



Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:05 pm
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Post Re: Creationists hate this Catholic
ant wrote:
Dexter wrote:
geo wrote:
Well, Dawkins doesn't exactly recommend Miller's book. He recommends it for Creationists who have been led astray by Intelligent Design proponent Michael Behe. Miller's book is about how to reconcile the conflict many people see between God and evolution. Personally, I don't see a conflict. :-)


At the risk of getting a reply from ant, I think there is very much a conflict. Sure you can say that God set evolution in motion. But most people who are trying to make this argument also are arguing for some kind of "soul" that makes humans special. But that thought experiment from Dawkins reveals the problem -- make a stack of pictures with each ancestor on top of the one before. Each one gave birth to the same species, but go back far enough and you've got a fish. (Ant doesn't like saying it was a fish, even though he says he accepts evolution, so how about a much more primitive species.) There was no first human. So when was the soul put in?


youre not wired for a soul, Dexter.
youre humanity's exemplar of wired perfection - wired for disbelief


Indeed, I am at the pinnacle of evolution, along with the mighty cockroach.

But can you answer this challenge to theistic evolution?



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Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:41 am
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