Tyrion is a favorite character of many people. His family members are all a******s yet he seems to keep above a******ness.

I'm fascinated by the view that Eddard is trying to get something. In other circles I'm in most people find him to be awesome good guy. I personally see him as going to be advisor because he cared more about his family than what he wanted to do...didn't he have an argument with his wife about wanting to stay home?

Crystalline, I think you'll find GRRM is more a "the truth is gritty, ugly and dangerous" sort of writer. As such, romantic love doesn't come into the story often.
...Actually, thinking about it, romantic love seems to have a very specific interpretation in the story... But I think it's better to discuss that a bit later.

EDIT: It's surprising to me that you interpret Eddard's motivation the way you do... I'd always assumed that Eddard was just being loyal to Robert, and taking on the responsibility thrust upon him. Remember that everyone just assumes that Bran fell off the tower, they don't know what actually happened. Bran's fall is certainly tragic, but should it influence Eddard's promise to Robert? Maybe if he suspected that someone had tried to kill his son, but if it's a simple circumstance of fate?

If there's anyone here who's being ambitious about the whole enterprise, it's Catelyn. She actively lobbies for her husband to take on the duty of King's hand, in part for her children and, I think, in part because she hopes to get away from the north. Unfortunately for her, the whole thing backfires when Ned asks her to stay in Winterfell.


EDIT2: I think my favorite line in this set of chapters is, at once poetic, symbolic and powerfully evocative... a rough word that resonates deeply in the larynx as it is said, the very act of saying it mystifies and causes a sense of wonder... what, truly, could it mean? The simple and powerful nature of the character from who's mouth this paradoxical exclamation escapes belies the deep spiritual significance of these two quizzical syllables....

Hodor wrote:HODOR

EDIT3: I agree with Taylor and scrumfish that location seems to influence the characters. But I think it's more than that, the locations themselves seem to begin as extensions of the characters' nature... Winterfell is an extension of the "Starks". Location isn't the only thing that gets touched by this, I feel. The sigils also seem to stem from the characters, there's certainly a symbolic "resonance" between the direwolf and the starks, between the stag and Robert Baratheon, the golden lion and the golden haired Lannisters.
And then you have the direwolves, who are plainly symbolic of their masters and the relationships between them.. Nymeria yerns to go with Ghost and Jon, although Arya must leave to face the Septa and her mother... Then there's the contrast between Ghost and the other direwolves, white and huge with red eyes... Bran's wolf (yet unnamed, why?) seems content to wait for him at the foot of the sentinel tree at first, but begins to howl as he starts his ascent up the old tower, as if aware of the danger ahead. And then he stays by his window howling while his master lies convalescent. The names themselves have a symbolic significance, more clear in some cases than in others: Lady and Sansa, Nymeria and Arya, Grey Wind and Robb, Ghost and Jon, Shaggy Dog and Rickon.... Bran and ... who?

Catelyne was if i remember responding to a note from her sister concerning the strange circumstance of Robert Arryn's death.Ned still troubles me, i can under stand a kings command but he just doesn't seem to question motivation. Ned is certainly brave and honorable and smart but still in some way i think he's weak. its subtle but i think its still there. as for Catelyne she does not lack motivation,( her families safety) She forces herself to leave Winterfell with an idea that is not thought out fully.

I'm not so sure the word to describe Ned here is 'weak'... He doesn't seem weak to me. In fact, as lord of Winterfell he seems capable enough, so far. He doesn't squirm at the prospect of executing his own judgement, his people respect him, his sons are each individual and unique, not afraid of him, but respectful. His subjects within the castle seem happy and relaxed enough, but disciplined enough that the business of the castle goes on as it should... and Winterfell is well off enough that it can set a feast for the King at week's notice.
I think a better word to describe Ned is 'Honor-bound'. Ned clearly would rather not go to King's Landing, but he feels he has to. Not only for Robert's sake, but because he understands someone has to look into Jon Arryn's death, and his wife and maester convince him that 'someone' should be him.

yoink....


After reading a couple of the blog entries, I realize it's a really bad idea to share the blog here... Most of these articles contain huge spoilers, and the author links to a speculation site that has some very strong theories concerning some of the most impressive plot twists in the series.... I may have ruined my own chance at being surprised by the story, and I don't think I wish that on anybody else.

If one of you does want to check it out (because some of the stuff being said here is super interesting, and the theories are intriguing), pm me and I'll send you the link.

Actually, this chapter has one of my favorite pieces of dialogue in the book. The part where Jon asks Tyrion why he reads so much, and he responds "Well, my legs may be too small for my body, but my head is too large, although I prefer to think it is just large enough for my mind. I have a realistic grasp of my own strengths and weaknesses. My mind is my weapon. My brother has his sword, King Robert has his warhammer, and I have my mind... and a mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, it if is to keep its edge."

Tyrion seems an ideal skeptic. His street smarts are his endearing quality, but he is still a Lannister a family that is easy to mark as villainous.( twice attempting the murder of Bran) GRRM seems to give outsiders and children an inner strength that some of the adult characters lack, WIT is vital, and Tyrion reminds us to not judge on appearance.

I have to be careful here, as I read GoT last year, and just finished watching the HBO first season on DVD. What I mean is I do not want to spoil the plot development for someone who is only now in the chapters we are discussing. But I will say that Martin is excellent at laying false trails, and throwing in plot twists that are totally unexpected. And I would like to add that this is one of the most active discussions I have seen since joining Book Talk. Keep it up, people.

I'm reading the next section (chapters 16 - 23) so I'll wait to comment a little later, but I'm wondering why so few women are participating in this discussion. I'm new here, so is this typical? Women just don't participate in these duscussions or is it the choice of book? If I remember correctly, few ladies participated in "Tempesta's Dream" discussion also? Why?

Crystalline wrote:I'm reading the next section (chapters 16 - 23) so I'll wait to comment a little later, but I'm wondering why so few women are participating in this discussion. I'm new here, so is this typical? Women just don't participate in these duscussions or is it the choice of book? If I remember correctly, few ladies participated in "Tempesta's Dream" discussion also? Why?

Good questions that I have no answer for sometimes participation just dies or never really gets off the ground. If you can create a pro atheist or theist twist however you may get tremendous participation. (please Chris do not take it wrong I truly love your site)

Cattleman wrote:I have to be careful here, as I read GoT last year, and just finished watching the HBO first season on DVD. What I mean is I do not want to spoil the plot development for someone who is only now in the chapters we are discussing. But I will say that Martin is excellent at laying false trails, and throwing in plot twists that are totally unexpected. And I would like to add that this is one of the most active discussions I have seen since joining Book Talk. Keep it up, people.

Cattleman please join in this group discussion, I to read the series but am rereading to stay with the group, I'm trying not to spoil anything ether, but am curious as to what those who are reading GoT for the first time think of the story and GRRM's cleverness in stringing the reader along.