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"Theoretical physics is not an autonomous science; it is subordinate to metaphysics..." 
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Post Re: "Theoretical physics is not an autonomous science; it is subordinate to metaphysics..."
Quote:
Perhaps your expectations were too high to begin with?


Quite frankly, I have no high expectations toward anything or anyone.
That's just the way it is with me.



Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:40 pm
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Post Re: "Theoretical physics is not an autonomous science; it is subordinate to metaphysics..."
http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/ ... ysics.html


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VMLM, youkrst
Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:17 pm
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Post Re: "Theoretical physics is not an autonomous science; it is subordinate to metaphysics..."
ant wrote:
Atheist war mongrels


:lol:

ant wrote:
Notice how the troll thanked you for your post,


:D

ant wrote:
When Stawrhe uses the word, out comes the bias in the vomitous implicit accusation that Stawrhe is using the word in a "very christian" manner.


nothing to do with stahrwe, the quote was written by Pierre Maurice Marie Duhem apparently.

ant wrote:
Lesson learned here:
Let's attack the person whenever we get the chance.


not at all, no attack on stahrwe at all, i just thought that the statement "Theoretical physics .... is subordinate to metaphysics..." was a little weak.

Quote:
Yes indeed! No one is or has been subordinate to anyone else in secular regimes!
The very word belongs to religion and medieval religious empires!
Except of course when it's used by a non believer!!


:D

ant, if you want to subordinate your theoretical physics to metaphysics you are of course entirely free to do so. Deepak Chopra will be right there with you.

PS: when i said subordinate is a very christian word, examples are not hard to find

Quote:
"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."


Quote:
But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"


i suppose i shall be had up for insubordination :D

it appears i am simply agreeing with Pierre Maurice Marie Duhem when he says

Quote:
Now, to make physical theories depend on metaphysics is surely not the way to let them enjoy the privilege of universal consent."



Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:39 pm
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Post Re: "Theoretical physics is not an autonomous science; it is subordinate to metaphysics..."
ant wrote:
stahrwe wrote:
While this post included an update on the group it is not related to the focus of the group per se.


When will the group post its first discussion point.
It seems like this has been going on forever.

Several weeks ago stahrwe estimated the group would start publishing info this Summer. You can't rush Science.



Last edited by LanDroid on Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:12 am
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Post Re: "Theoretical physics is not an autonomous science; it is subordinate to metaphysics..."
Quote:
VMLM said My gut reaction, much like ant's and LanDroid's, was to interpret this as an erred definition of what physics is. Why? Because it has been inculcated into me that physical theories are not laws, since they must be, by definition, temporary and falsifiable. However, in the context of what is being discussed, I understood the phrase to be referring not to physical theories, but to the nature of theoretical physics itself. I came to rationalize the phrase to mean that theoretical physics was a study of natural laws (the "real" laws that exist independently of our understanding and which dictate the physical world), which it attempts to explain through mathematical models.

But Duehm refers to "laws experimentally established" and "a group of experimental laws", not to the independent laws of nature you describe.
Quote:
VMLM said To me it makes sense to subordinate science, and consequently theoretical physics, to philosophy.

You make very good points, but the subject of this thread is subordinating science to metaphysics. :boxed:



Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:33 am
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Post Re: "Theoretical physics is not an autonomous science; it is subordinate to metaphysics..."
Interbane wrote:
http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2014/01/rationally-speaking-cartoon-metaphysics.html


What is this?

I told you long ago that science engages in metaphysics and at the time you denied it.
Are you conceding the point here by sending me a cartoon narrative?

Note that by "engaging in metaphysics" I did not, nor do not mean to the extent that Yahweh' stepson is implying in this thread.



Last edited by ant on Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:40 pm
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Post Re: "Theoretical physics is not an autonomous science; it is subordinate to metaphysics..."
LanDroid wrote:
[
Several weeks ago stahrwe estimated the group would start publishing info this Summer. You can't rush Science.


Wait for it... You can't prove a negative! Boom!



Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:18 pm
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Post Re: "Theoretical physics is not an autonomous science; it is subordinate to metaphysics..."
Quote:
I told you long ago that science engages in metaphysics and at the time you denied it.


How could science engage in metaphysics? Scientists may, depending on their field. If I ever denied this, I was wrong. Formulating hypotheses is more philosophy than science in my opinion.

Do you have the quote where I denied it?


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Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:49 am
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Post Re: "Theoretical physics is not an autonomous science; it is subordinate to metaphysics..."
deleted [with prejudice]



Last edited by ant on Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:54 am
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Post Re: "Theoretical physics is not an autonomous science; it is subordinate to metaphysics..."
Dexter wrote:
LanDroid wrote:
[
Several weeks ago stahrwe estimated the group would start publishing info this Summer. You can't rush Science.


Wait for it... You can't prove a negative! Boom!



"The world would be better off without religion"


wait for it..,

You can't support a premise with counterfactual fantasies!

BOOM!



Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:20 am
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Post Re: "Theoretical physics is not an autonomous science; it is subordinate to metaphysics..."
ant wrote:
You can't support a premise with counterfactual fantasies!


I don't get it. :?:


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Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:55 pm
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