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Record return of artic ice cap

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Robert Tulip

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Re: Record return of artic ice cap

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Another good rebuttal of the lies from the Daily Mail and The Telegraph is at http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -delusions

Whole article is well worth reading to see how climate denialists use the Goebbels playbook. They are truly evil.

This graph is particularly noteworthy as a simple refutation of the "not getting warmer" lies. Most of the heat is going into the ocean. Once the ocean cycle turns we are in for it.

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TheWizard
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Re: Record return of artic ice cap

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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 12464.html

I guess you can add the Wall Street Journal and the United Nations to your pin-headed, obnoxious argument about global warming.

Take it from an ACTUAL scientists (7 years in the field of quantum physics, operating and repairing nuclear reactors) the so-called science behind global warming lies somewhere between crap and lies.

If Al Gore himself believes it, why did he buy a beach house?
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Interbane

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Re: Record return of artic ice cap

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Take it from an ACTUAL scientists (7 years in the field of quantum physics, operating and repairing nuclear reactors) the so-called science behind global warming lies somewhere between crap and lies.
That's fallacious reasoning Wizard. An appeal to authority argument.
Fallacious examples of using the appeal include:
cases where the authority is not a subject-matter expert
cases where there is no consensus among experts in the subject matter
any appeal to authority used in the context of deductive reasoning.
A nuclear physicist is not equal to a climatologist when speaking on climate change. If you're that nuclear physicist, you should take a course in logic to supplement your physics. It couldn't hurt.
If Al Gore himself believes it, why did he buy a beach house?
Because he had the money? Any way you hope to frame this, it's non-sequitur.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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ant

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Re: Record return of artic ice cap

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there are so many published studies indicating an overestimation of global warming over the past decade in particular, its downright head spinning.

Also, climate models are notoriously off base with their forcasts. There are so many variables to plug in. "Climate Change" is safer language than "global warming." The mainstream rhetoric switched their language up accordingly. The climate is a chaotic system.

We have global warming religious fanatics like Robert always willing to sound the war drums whenever someone is skeptical about all this certainty thrown around the public square.

And of course, notice Robert continuing to beat up the source. He attempting to poison the well as much as he can .
Nature Mag has several published studies that speak of overestimation and the "hiatus" effect

But yes i am for lowering the amount of filth we inject into the atmosphere
Last edited by ant on Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Record return of artic ice cap

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Everyone always at some point "appeals to authority" Interbane.
Even guys like you
Last edited by ant on Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Record return of artic ice cap

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And of course we always have values motives and incentives in play on both sides. This isnt about "the good guys" trying to save us from the evil money hungry polluters.
Robert would like us to think of the global warming crazies as genuine heroes that care for us all and the planet.
There are sociological motives and influences here - money, prestige, etc
Robert wants us to think science is practiced in a vacuum.
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Re: Record return of artic ice cap

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Everyone always at some point "appeals to authority" Interbane.
Even guys like you
Absolutely, and there are legitimate ways to appeal to authority. There are also fallacious ways to appeal to authority, which The Wizard is guilty of.
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Robert Tulip

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Re: Record return of artic ice cap

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ant wrote:This isnt about "the good guys" trying to save us from the evil money hungry polluters.
Yes it is. Supporters of business as usual have sold their souls to the devil. The challenge is to preserve capitalism in a context where it has been corrupted by cronyism. Only innovative technology produced through free market methods will enable sustainable geoengineering at scale, which is the only thing that will save us from global warming.
ant wrote: global warming crazies
Just like Churchill was crazy for opposing Hitler in the 1930s. Climate denialists are worse than holocaust denialists, since the global impact of runaway climate change would be much worse than the second world war.

I see ant has not conceded that his Daily Mail shitsheet was lies, as proven by the scientific rebuttals I posted. Remember, ant does not believe in atomic theory. Go figure.
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Re: Record return of artic ice cap

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there is little wrong with asking questions about the objectivity within a given field of science . Note that i mentioned early on in this thread that opening up our scientific community discussions on climate change (brought to the forefront by "climategate") was reasonable. A Popperian flavor in which a field opens itself up genuinely to criticism should be cheered on by any honest, truth seeking individual.

But then again we will always have facism in many forms.
Robert becomes quite the scientific facist whenever data is presented that is contrary to his unexamined biases.
:)
Also, i do not believe that the artic has warmed as the models predicted.
That is a good sign in some way that is significant. But the prophets of doom will stick to their guns because The Oracle at Delphi has given the future of a chaotic system.
Last edited by ant on Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Robert Tulip

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Re: Record return of artic ice cap

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ant wrote:there is little wrong with asking questions about the objectivity within a given field of science .
Of course, everyone should agree with that. But that is not even remotely what the Daily Mail article in the opening post is trying to do. Rather, it seeks to sow disinformation in order to serve the hidden agenda of increased short term commercial profit through opening up the Arctic to mining and shipping, damning the planet to ecological destruction. The lack of ethics is astonishing.
ant wrote: Note that i mentioned early on in this thread that opening up our scientific community discussions on climate change (brought to the forefront by "climategate") was reasonable.
Milking leaked emails from years ago which reflect little more than tactical despair about how to share scientific findings in a context where big oil has taken on the methods of big tobacco has no relevance to the current Arctic melting crisis.
ant wrote:A Popperian flavor in which a field opens itself up genuinely to criticism should be cheered on by any honest, truth seeking individual.
Invoking Popper as some sort of high priest of climate denial is utter bilge. Genuine criticism requires honesty, a quality which denialists do not comprehend. All honest climate scientists know human emissions are driving climate change. Against this overwhelming consensus about the facts, Sir Karl Popper would turn in his grave to be invoked as a champion of liars.
ant wrote: But then again we will always have facism in many forms.
Robert becomes quite the scientific facist whenever data is presented that is contrary to his unexamined biases.
:)
No need for the smily ant, when you are promoting lies, readily exposed by anyone who looks at the links in this thread. There is no "contrary data", there is just the cherrypicking of a dead cat bounce as though the reversion to the mean in 2013 of Arctic ice level is a "record return". Sorry, but your thread title is just disinformation and manipulation. Calling my refutation of your lies fascist really takes you into the gutter. My bias is in favour of scientific method. Yours is in favour of weird supernatural religious faith, denial of atomic theory and evolution, and now promotion of climate ignorance.
ant wrote: Also, i do not believe that the artic has warmed as the models predicted.
That is a good sign in some way that is significant. But the prophets of doom will stick to their guns because The Oracle at Delphi has given the future of a chaotic system.
There is nothing Delphic about science. Science just uses simple observation to form predictions. Of course weather is chaotic, as is well known, but the ants of this world will trumpet every zag and ignore every zig in the remorseless march to a hotter world.

Ant "does not believe", implying that facts are some sort of optional religion. You can have your own opinions but not your own facts. Suggesting that climate science is a matter of belief shows that ant is like the fabled ostrich, refusing to look. I have given links in this thread which show that the arctic has melted far faster than scientists predicted. The error was that scientists were too conservative. 2013 has about the fourth lowest Arctic ice volume on record. It appears that ant has simply ignored the facts, preferring instead to sling wild slurs about what he calls "facism".
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