What do you mean when you tell him to step up to the plate? That he should abandon an epistemically sound position for a false one? Why would you suggest that?ant wrote:Also, because you are a toenail away from 100% with your claim of 99.999999999% certainty there is no god (that's what you actually are saying, right?) you are that close from carrying the burden of proof to prove certainty. It would't be up to any else at that point to disprove your claim. It would be time for you to step up to the plate.
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What is scientism?
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Re: What is scientism?
“In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Re: What is scientism?
I like the little emoticon at the end of your question.What do you mean when you tell him to step up to the plate? That he should abandon an epistemically sound position for a false one? Why would you suggest that?
He is nearing the realm of absolute certainty with his claim of 99.99999%.
So one day Dexter wakes up and says, "I, Dexter, am now 100% certain there is no god"
No one asked him to abandon his position. HE announced 100% certainty. He carries the burden of proof if someone is bold enough to ask him and not letting him off the hook by accepting some nonsense like, "Ah-HA! First you must prove there IS a god!"
That's weak. I wouldn't buy that.
And I think he's stating the 99.9999% to stay clear from that. Either that or he's really a Closet Agnostic.
Last edited by ant on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is scientism?
Yes, I am staying clear of 100%. If I told you a fairy tale about how the world was created, wouldn't you be comfortable saying it had a 99.999999% chance of being false? But you couldn't say 100%. So what's the problem? You wouldn't be taking on the burden of proof.ant wrote:I like the little emoticon at the end of your question.What do you mean when you tell him to step up to the plate? That he should abandon an epistemically sound position for a false one? Why would you suggest that?
He is nearing the realm of absolute certainty with his claim of 99.99999%.
So one day Dexter wakes up and says, "I, Dexter, am now 100% certain there is no god"
No one asked him to abandon his position. HE announced 100% certainty. He carries the burden of proof if someone is bold enough to ask him and not letting him off the hook by accepting some nonsense like, "Ah-HA! First you must prove there IS a god!"
That's weak. I wouldn't buy that.
And I think he's stating the 99.9999% to stay clear from that. Either that or he's really a Closet Agnostic.
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Re: What is scientism?
Just one comment and one question:
Comment - that is wise of you
Question - so you're an agnostic, right?
.Yes, I am staying clear of 100%
Comment - that is wise of you
Question - so you're an agnostic, right?
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Re: What is scientism?
The 99.9999% figure is rather arbitrary. From a scientific perspective, the question of God's existence cannot really be addressed without the corresponding weight of evidence. Since there is no evidence, it's not in the scientific realm at all. So I think this 99.9999% figure is just a bit of a lark in response to those who claim 100% certainty that God does exist. The premise is ridiculous. That 100% certainty is all pretense, a person of faith declaring they want something to be true so badly they're willing to say (with certainty) that it is. To those outside the religious belief system, these claims are as ridiculous as someone claiming without a smidgeon of evidence that Bigfoot exists.
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Re: What is scientism?
I've said that most atheists would consider themselves agnostic if you mean they agree that you can't prove a negative. I assume you are also agnostic about all Gods minus one.ant wrote:Just one comment and one question:
.Yes, I am staying clear of 100%
Comment - that is wise of you
Question - so you're an agnostic, right?
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Re: What is scientism?
It is arbitrary, and is just a humble admission from Dexter that he doesn't know everything there is to know.
It is no slight against him, nor a detriment to his argument that he admits as much.
Yes, i think he would take "agnostic" as a descriptor, just as i would. I am confident you've read this on this site by now, but i describe myself as an agnostic atheist, meaning, There has been no compelling evidence put in front of me for god, so i don't believe. As opposed to a Gnostic atheist, who would not accept any evidence for god.
You've seen this before, so why are you making noise about agnostic vs atheist?
i posted here with some more commentary which seems relevant.
http://www.booktalk.org/post104446.html#p104446
It is no slight against him, nor a detriment to his argument that he admits as much.
Yes, i think he would take "agnostic" as a descriptor, just as i would. I am confident you've read this on this site by now, but i describe myself as an agnostic atheist, meaning, There has been no compelling evidence put in front of me for god, so i don't believe. As opposed to a Gnostic atheist, who would not accept any evidence for god.
You've seen this before, so why are you making noise about agnostic vs atheist?
i posted here with some more commentary which seems relevant.
http://www.booktalk.org/post104446.html#p104446
In the absence of God, I found Man.
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Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?
Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?
Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
-Guillermo Del Torro
Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?
Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?
Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Re: What is scientism?
I'm not certain whether or not a human being is capable of having a personal relationship with a universal intelligence. It simply may be beyond our knowledge capabilities.I assume you are also agnostic about all Gods minus one.
I know atheists think man's intelligence packs enough punch to explain and understand everything in existence. And perhaps you feel almost certain of that as well - that is 99.99999% certain, which is still saying a whole lot.
We might not live long enough to get the answer. I'm not out to prove God's existence. I'm also not in a position to claim that I'm 99.99999% certain God is just like the god of thunder, or the god of lightning, or the god of corn, etc. etc. It seems like we are all past categorizing like that.
You seem to be certain an intelligence that might just be beyond your comprehension should be shelved with any other god. Good for you. Nothing wrong with being confident .
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Re: What is scientism?
Actually, he's not really saying he doesn't know everything these is to know.It is arbitrary, and is just a humble admission from Dexter that he doesn't know everything there is to know.
He's actually saying he's 99.99999% certain he knows just about all there is to know that would determine beyond a reasonable doubt an omnipotent being does not, or can not exist.
Now, let's all work on curing the common cold.
Last edited by ant on Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What is scientism?
I doubt he's trying to defend a calculation to 5 decimal places about his certainty. You may recall a conversation we had about confidence where i brought up something along these lines that saying you are certain, coloquially, really amounts to admitting a high degree of confidence to the point that it may as well be 100% certain, based on all that you know of the subject.You seem to be certain an intelligence that might just be beyond your comprehension should be shelved with any other god. Good for you. Nothing wrong with being confident .
You are trying to bring in that off the cuff 99.99999 as some kind of mark against him. It was obvious to me at least that it was no assertion of having done the sums.
As far as higher intelligences go, i have little doubt there are intelligences in the vast reaches of space which make us look like ants in comparison. Not accurately described as mystical gods, though perhaps scientific gods which have created life themselves, biological and mechanical.
How can i have confidence in something like that while having confidence there is no god? Because god is magic and has no relevant examples in anything in our experience. Aliens would be natural and organic, and simply an extension of the kinds of things we know to be possible based on referential observations here on earth. Then, given the size of the universe and the opportunities it represents, it gives me great satisfaction to announce a 99.999999 repeating confidence level that there are such beings out there!
Mark it in your records, Ant. That's to the sixth decimal place!
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro
Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?
Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?
Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
-Guillermo Del Torro
Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?
Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?
Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?