Dave The Marine wrote:. . .
I think I may have drifted somewhat afield from Hobbes but philosphers seem to have ways of forcing us down paths of thoughts, causing us to explore how things are connected one to the other. Have a good day I am off to screw some more people for my personal advantage.

Hobbes does make you think. In a capitalistic society, to do well means to outcompete others. So, yes, the natural state of war is still alive and well to some extent. On the other hand it's argued that wealth is actually created and no one loses. I'm not sure I buy this.

I don't see Hobbes advocating a society where no one has the right to own private property. He does say a sovereign may decide the property rights of his or her subjects. Perhaps property rights are used by the sovereign as a carrot to motivate his subjects to stay true to the contract. If we want to maintain possession of our possessions, we need to live in a state of peace and that is ensured only through continued willingness to adhere to the social contract with the commonwealth.

"That every private man has an absolute Propriety in his Goods; such, as excludeth the Right of the Soveraign."

This is probably the closest that Hobbes gets to admitting that people own property but it shouldn't be taken at face value in my opinion. The sovereign allows people use of his property. Everything belongs to the sovereign. If everything belongs to the sovereign... no one can have personal property - just borrowed stuff.

Even if a person has personal property regarding everyone but one person - that property isn't HIS.

There's a difference between this and everyone-share-everything but the idea that people 'own' property is false.

I usually think we're referring to land ownership when we're talking about private property. But even land ownership is not quite what it sounds like. You own certain rights to the land, but ultimately what you do with it is subject to zoning and land laws that are dictated by the government. Even so, I believe our land ownership is far more liberal than in Hobbes' time.

I've just started the next section, The Commonwealth. Sorry to be so slow.