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Gods, Death and why I

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MaesterAuron151

Re: Cross Communique

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Quote:Humans have to analyze everything, hence science was born. But for the unintelligent that doesn't understand science or take the time for it, God becomes an easier outlet. If only more people took the time for further education.That is so antiquated and untrue.And people talk about the theists using old arguments.Do explain why so many physicsts, geneticists, chemists, biologysts, and doctors all have religeons if religeon is simply the product of poor education.As for the rest of this thread you don't need to be an atheist to not think that god micromanages every event that ever happens. Most theists would rather believe god is incapable of stopping catastrophys then that he causes them for personal reasons.As for "why would god create evil". Read the Dragonlance Trilogy, that explains it pretty clearly. Edited by: MaesterAuron151 at: 9/15/06 11:25 pm
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Frank 013
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Re: Cross Communique

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First let me clarify what I mean by human nature, I am talking about our genetic disposition as an animal species. We NEED food, water, sleep, we have a genetic URGE or NATURE to breed, collect, protect, be social. These are not in dispute.The problems I site with Christianity is it's insistence that sex is sinful, and wealth, selfish. These are just 2 examples, there are others. Even if the church does attempt to offer people the methods to control their behavior it does not seem to work very often.Maybe I have more discipline than most people but while I was in Louisiana I watched several good God fearing Christians cheat on their wives. I am an atheist and I will not do this, and the only reason I need is that it would hurt my wife to find out.Religious meddling in law is another big problem. This behavior can only result from one ideal, elitism, religious people seem to think that their way is the best and every one else should do as they do.Despite all that religion may attempt to teach the vast majority of believers are still ignorant, elitist hypocrites. Just watch them leaving a church sometime, they hit the road like their insane, like they deserve to be on the road and damn anyone in their way. Later
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Re: Cross Communique

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Quote:I didn't say the majority. But if even 1% of scientists have religeons I would call that "many". The point is that it disproves the assumption that religeon is just the result of poor education. Many educated people follow religeons.Your "points" are rarely if ever really "points." If approximately 93% of the general population in the USA is theistic and only 7% atheistic, AND 93% of the NAS scientists are atheists and only 7% theists there is an incredibly clear message here. The "point" is that science education and faith are inversely proportional. You need to take a few courses in critical thinking and basic probability.
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Dissident Heart

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Re: Cross Communique

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Frank: We NEED food, water, sleep, we have a genetic URGE or NATURE to breed, collect, protect, be social.No argument that these primary needs exist universally, but how they are actually expressed/fulfilled presents a far more diversified and complex subject. As humans in diverse cultural contexts bring meaning to these primary needs, (i.e., evaluate their importance and define their purpose) we discover a much more elastic and indeterminate human nature. How we determine the rules of breeding, collecting, protecting, social organization...allocating food, water, soil: all of these determinizations reflect highly complex networks of symbol and language systems, moral codes, kinship structures, etc...the stuff of culture.They also reflect our hopes and vision for the future: what we would like to become...if we grant something more to human nature than simply static primary needs...we work, struggle, and dream of different ways to live and prosper in the world.Frank: The problems I site with Christianity is it's insistence that sex is sinful, and wealth, selfish.I also reject any form of Christianity that views sexuality as sinful. I think it's very odd that any Christian would bemoan sexuality, especially since one of the primary metaphors describing the relationship between Christ and the Church is one of Husband to Bride and that the fullness of Creation finds expression as the Comsummation and Copulation between this man and woman. As for wealth, again, it depends upon which Christian you talk to. There are more than a few that pronounce a kind of "prosperity Gospel" where congregants are encouraged to amass as much fortune as possible: seeing that they are promised enormous prosperity when they submit to God's will. And, there are those, like yours truly, who recognize the power of greed, blind consumerism, and hunger for power to destroy relationships, communities and entire ecosystems. I think an intelligent Christianity celebrates sexuality and wealth, is well aware of the power of both to create and destroy, and works to keep both under the guidelines of love.Frank: Even if the church does attempt to offer people the methods to control their behavior it does not seem to work very often.No doubt there is more work to be done, and there is simply no room for Christians (as I see it) to boast of their successes without first taking stock of their failures. Again, I think this is built-in to the process of being a Christian: this kind of self-examination and confession of shortcomings. Frank: Religious meddling in law is another big problem. This behavior can only result from one ideal, elitism, religious people seem to think that their way is the best and every one else should do as they do.You've hit the nail on the head regarding how to approach policy making and enforcement in a pluralistic society: how can people of different backgrounds, cultures, belief systems work together to make laws and protect society? I think religious folk, like any citizen, have the right to bring their point of view to the table. Frank: Despite all that religion may attempt to teach the vast majority of believers are still ignorant, elitist hypocrites. Just watch them leaving a church sometime, they hit the road like their insane, like they deserve to be on the road and damn anyone in their way. Since so much of the human race is religious, and has been for what seems the vast majority of history...perhaps it is simply human nature to be hypocritcal, ignorant and elitist? If that is the case, why are you so determined to change it?
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Re: Cross Communique

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As far as the differences of people and their rights, obviously laws must be made but they should be fair to all people who would not wrong others and be neutral regarding religion; which was the way our system was founded. Our system was screwed up a long time ago by religious elitists that couldn't bare the idea of someone doing anything that they believed immoral, even if it did not affect them personally. (And they are still at it.)For now I feel just fine pointing out the errors of some lines of thought, and although I am not a Christian several people at my work benefit from my advice in such matters, Because they know that I am fair, caring and honest and can keep a level head even when they can't.I'm not really determined to change anything, if I were "determined" I would have a plan and be somewhere in the process of implementing it. I do voice my opinion when the religious groups try to take my rights away.Later
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Re: Gods, Death and why I

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thread.... BUMP!

Theres good stuff in here.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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