Orwellian liberalism

A forum for the friendly discussion of national and international politics, history and current events.
User avatar
Harry Marks
Authors are MY fans!
Posts: 1832
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:42 am

ant wrote:Of course the unchecked mayhem and violence in democratic run cities is the fault of the republicans.
It's easy to blame the right for the horrible systems facing people of color. The anti-government instincts on the right, and the assumption that institutions are treating people fairly (connected strongly to white fragility), and the compounding effects of implicit bias, are part of a system enabled by the denial and pretense on the right. The dog-whistle appeals to racism, which would never have been acceptable to the Republican party before Nixon's Southern Strategy, and the natural authoritarianism that put wind in the "law and order" sails, all make the Republican party from Reagan on look like the villains of the piece, because they have accepted that role and walked hand in hand with Fox News and Rush Limbaugh playing many of the same games.

But as I think about what would really make a difference, it looks to me like the requirement is courage that the Democrats don't really have much more of. Two states have made serious efforts to integrate housing: New Jersey and Hawaii. In New Jersey's case it was driven by the courts. The country still has a pitiful record of facing up to the legacy of our racist past by simply putting affordable housing in every single suburb (looking at you, Westchester County and Marin County and Hamptons) and showing zero tolerance for intolerance. Follow up is necessary - jobs and fitting in and learning to be respectable rather than just fighting to be treated with respect are all barriers that need some assistance to get past. Human relationship is essential to helping people make those transitions. But until housing is desegregated, those personal kinds of assistance can never happen.

But instead of actually taking courage, we point fingers at the Republicans, (who are, in fact, guilty of riding the racism current,) even though the Democrats were, up until Trump, mainly doing better only in the sense that they said the right things. Now we have a President and a party pushing judicial activism to reinforce racism, and who regularly back harmful policies, so the situation is rather different. But it is still true that the real sources of our society's gross racial inequality are going unaddressed and almost unmentioned.

I wonder if a candidate like Kamala Harris, willing to let it be personal on the vulnerable side, might be what it takes.
User avatar
ant
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5936
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm

Should museums be abolished?

CNN claims "people" are "calling for it" to happen.

https://www.cnn.com/style/article/natur ... index.html

(propaganda outlet)



Reminder about the perniciousness of f so called liberalism and those who are silent and complicit in all this.

“Perhaps the Party was rotten under the surface, its cult of strenuousness and self-denial simply a sham concealing iniquity.”
Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them
“You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty, and then we shall fill you with ourselves.”
~ George Orwell
User avatar
ant
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5936
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm

Why on earth would a statue of Fredrick Douglass be torn down?


https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... -attacked/


This is turning into straight up Marxism.
User avatar
DWill
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6926
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:05 am
Location: Luray, Virginia

It's not known who tore it down. The Arthur Ashe statue in Richmond was vandalized by the opposition to BLM. This could be tit for tat.
User avatar
ant
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5936
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm

traffic signals are racist


.
“Remember, honey,” she said to her daughter as we waited for the light to turn green, “we need to wait for the little White man to appear before we can cross the street.”
https://level.medium.com/the-unintentio ... 899c34fefb
User avatar
ant
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5936
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm

DWill wrote:It's not known who tore it down. The Arthur Ashe statue in Richmond was vandalized by the opposition to BLM. This could be tit for tat.

Right..
User avatar
DWill
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6926
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:05 am
Location: Luray, Virginia

ant wrote:traffic signals are racist


.
“Remember, honey,” she said to her daughter as we waited for the light to turn green, “we need to wait for the little White man to appear before we can cross the street.”
https://level.medium.com/the-unintentio ... 899c34fefb
An example of over-analysis, but I wouldn't call it Orwellian.
User avatar
Harry Marks
Authors are MY fans!
Posts: 1832
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:42 am

ant wrote: Democrats need to be held accountable.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/us/b ... sters.html
So presumably Republicans need to be held accountable for these murderous, terrorist car attacks on protesters. I think I am beginning to catch on to how this "accountability" works.
User avatar
Harry Marks
Authors are MY fans!
Posts: 1832
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:42 am

There was an interesting op-ed in the New York Times recently about the police accountability issue. Essentially, Bret Stephens (one of the conservatives in their commentator ranks) argues that the surge in violent crime in Baltimore and a few other cities has been due to police "holding back" on account of fear of being held responsible. I don't think he has a solid basis for concluding this, but there seems to be some suspicious sequencing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/17/opin ... imore.html
The main problem is that similar surges have occurred without any policing changes or reasons for police to be intimidated, and other cities have had success (meaning, lower crime) with less confrontational policing. I suspect there are actually multiple causes at work - for instance, Baltimore has had a real hollowing out of working-class jobs, as anyone who watched The Wire knows. Stephens downplays this factor, but I find his argument less than comprehensive or convincing.

The takeaway is supposed to be that bad guys get out of hand when the police back off of aggressive policing. The main problem is that these shootings don't seem to be coordinated efforts by bad guys to take over territory, make more money or dominate night clubs. Rather (from the sketchy reporting I have read, anyway) it has been about an upsurge in random violence, with punks getting their hands on guns and swaggering around until somebody provokes them (probably another punk with a gun). If police are really backing off, that could still be a result. But it could just be caused by the things Stephens doesn't want to credit: unemployment, chaotic homes, and cultures of desperation.

In general, I think it is a bad idea to try to account for such trends with either just liberal or just conservative narratives. The decline in crime over the 90s seems to have been a virtuous circle driven by improved economies, declining share of young males in the population, aggressive policing, tough sentencing (now being questioned for its toxic societal effects) and, of all things, Roe v. Wade. (Fewer unwanted children of chaos really does mean lower crime rates.)
User avatar
Harry Marks
Authors are MY fans!
Posts: 1832
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:42 am

Now it seems that the looting in Minneapolis was kicked off by a false flag operation, specifically a Hell's Angels white supremacist being referred to as "Umbrella Man".

https://www.startribune.com/police-umbr ... 571932272/

Hard to know who to be mad at.
User avatar
ant
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5936
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm

Harry Marks wrote:Now it seems that the looting in Minneapolis was kicked off by a false flag operation, specifically a Hell's Angels white supremacist being referred to as "Umbrella Man".

https://www.startribune.com/police-umbr ... 571932272/

Hard to know who to be mad at.

There is no evidence to speak of for that claim
User avatar
Harry Marks
Authors are MY fans!
Posts: 1832
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:42 am

ant wrote:There is no evidence to speak of for that claim
No, there is evidence, but we are not hearing much of it yet. There is reason to be suspicious of the “tip” that led to Umbrella Man, but I am betting the evidence against him holds up better than the arrests of “antifa thugs” in Portland. Why? Because so many peaceful demonstrators tried to stop this kind of trashing, and a provocateur from one of the right wing terrorist groups has more incentive to ignore those pleas than the leftists who want to be considered virtuous for their anarchic violence.
User avatar
ant
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5936
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm

Harry Marks wrote:
ant wrote:There is no evidence to speak of for that claim
No, there is evidence, but we are not hearing much of it yet. There is reason to be suspicious of the “tip” that led to Umbrella Man, but I am betting the evidence against him holds up better than the arrests of “antifa thugs” in Portland. Why? Because so many peaceful demonstrators tried to stop this kind of trashing, and a provocateur from one of the right wing terrorist groups has more incentive to ignore those pleas than the leftists who want to be considered virtuous for their anarchic violence.
So not hearing evidence is in fact evidence.

Gotcha
User avatar
Harry Marks
Authors are MY fans!
Posts: 1832
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:42 am

ant wrote:There is no evidence to speak of for that claim
Harry Marks wrote:No, there is evidence, but we are not hearing much of it yet.
ant wrote:So not hearing evidence is in fact evidence.Gotcha
Sorry, I thought you requested no citations from the internet. There is plenty of evidence, but it isn't, as far as I can tell, conclusive.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis- ... els-police
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/umbrella-m ... e-protests
https://nypost.com/2020/07/28/minneapol ... cist-cops/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/us/u ... polis.html
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/28/us/umbre ... index.html
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/07/umbrel ... ng-member/
User avatar
ant
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5936
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm

Where can I read about the specific evidence that determines he is an "associate" of an Aryan biker gang?

The accusation is based on an "anonymous tip".
That good enough for you?
Post Reply