http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009 ... rearms.php

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/1 ... 55656.html

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/ ... 26745.aspx

http://www.open.salon.com/blog/rictresa ... l_meetings

Short articles about idiots carrying guns to government meetings.

What in hell are these guys doing showing up at town hall meetings with fire arms? It is a childish attempt to bully people into silence.

The second amendment no longer applies. Fire arms were being confiscated by the english to bolster their waning supplies, long supply lines and to demoralize the occupied colonies. What's more, guns were a primary source of income, or food for colonists. This would be akin to the government coming by and confiscating your car to use the parts to add armor to those paper mache hummers in the gulf. You need come kind of conveyance to get to work.

Gun access should be granted based on competence, like the ability to drive a vehicle. It makes no sense that everyone NEEDS to have access to lethal force with the pull of a trigger. This is not a primary right directly comparable to freedom of speach. Freedom of self defense, yes, but not to carry fire-arms in public where there can be no legitimate use for them.

Hi Everyone:

Please allow me to offer another perspective.

1. We here in Barbados have universal health care for every type of ailment, and it is free for all citizen patients. Whether it is a sore throat, a major automobile accident, HIV/HIDS treatment, organ transplant, or open-heart surgery, the patient pays nothing. There are also several private health facilities that do quite well.

2. Social services must be paid for. No Barbadian has a ‘right’ to our free health care, free education (primary to university level), free transportation and school meals for students, free home repair and home help for the aged, etc, etc. These things are currently free because we can afford them.

3. If we were in an unsustainable debt, then we could not afford them and we would not have them.

4. The US is in an unsustainable debt situation. Warren Buffet finally had the courage to explicitly write of the dire financial consequences of the current US economic path. The US is doing exactly what the IMF, World Bank, and OECD nations tell developing nations not to do, print unsecured money.

5. Why is the US health care so expensive? Two principal reasons – R&D (someone has to do it, and others will piggyback on the results), and professional indemnity insurance (PII). PII for professionals can be $100,000 or more annually. Since the US should not drop its R&D work, some sort of Tort reform is necessary to reduce the high PII premiums. I understand that Tort reform is not included in the US health care reform bill

Regards.

Brotherska wrote:

I understand that Tort reform is not included in the US health care reform bill

This brings up another huge problem. Tort is established by auto insurance companies. The purchasher can decide what level of tort coverage they want. However, even without a tort stipulation in your auto insurance, which makes the insurance a great deal cheaper, lawyers get around this.

Tort reform in auto insurance is never going to happen. Injuries from auto accidents keep many lawyers in business. This is why in my state of NJ, auto insurance is the highest in the nation. We live in a sue happy country.

Tort reform would remove an individuals right to sue for damages and injuries. I think you bring up a very good point Brotherska, if the government could control the abundance of law suits against those who have been involved in auto accidents, this may bring down the cost of health insurance. In my opinion, this is why health insurance is so high in this country. However, I don't see it ever happening. This would effect the profits of lawyers and big law firms.

In my state of NJ, there is a buckle up law. Where do you think this came from? I seriously doubt if the government of NJ cares if you die because of not wearing a seat belt. The reason for the law is simple, insurance companies got tired of making payments for injuries because of drivers not wearing them. The same is true for children required to wear helmets while riding their bikes. In NJ all children under the age of 18 are required to wear a helmet. Again, the government does not care about the safety of my children, the government cares about the insurance compainies paying out.

I don't see universal health care ever happening. It would require the government to go against the big business of insurance, hospitals, laywers and law firms. People have realized this and have learned how to use the system with bogus claims, and staged auto accidents. People will use any avenue they can to get some free money. There was an incident not long ago where a son was doing some home repairs for his mother, in the mother's home. The story goes like this, the son was using a power saw to cut flooring, the mother called out to him that lunch was ready, this made the son lose focus and he cut off his pinkie finger with the saw. He sued his mother, and her home owners insurance paid out one million dollars. Is a pinkie finger worth a million bucks? Actually, the pinkie was worth $500,000, I am sure, the mother got the other half.

It's scams like this that need to be regulated.

johnson1010 wrote: Republicans are arguing against health care on the grounds that government will be between patients and doctors, or somebody in the government will decide who gets treatment and who doesn't. They are describing precisely what we have NOW.

Insurance companies decide whether or not you will live. THEY stand between us and life-saving medical treatment.

How can so many people not realize this?
If you asked them a year ago, most people would opine that insurance companies drive for profits makes them indifferent to peoples actual health.
A year ago they would tell you that the insurance companies will do anything not to pay a claim.
Now the insurance companies are playing them like puppets.

Our National Health Service has been absolutely superb. I would not be alive today were it not for its wonders.

Even our family's most recent encounters with hospitals and the Health Service have been superb. Childbirth, Terminal Cancer Care etc.....

It is deteriorating only because of privatising certain aspects of the system. Hospital Cleaning is now taken on by private companies out to make a profit. I don't blame them for wanting to make a profit, but it seems to me, self defeating to try to cut corners to save money in hospital cleaning.

Also, the accountants took over the economics, so that we had wards in some hospitals with empty beds....and others with patients dying on trolleys in the corridors for lack of beds. There was an issue, I remember debating with our local Social Services, called bed-blocking. Were old people, who, not really ill and being treated, but were considered too weak to be moved....would be moved to an old peoples home to free the bed....and then get pneumonia and have to be moved back to the hospital.

Having grown up sheltered by the NHS. I still now receive free Statins to keep my blood cholesterol low. Free regular blood tests. Free three-yearly breast screening and other tests of a gaenocological nature.

When one becomes a senior citizen at the age of 60 for women and 64 for men (soon to be changed)....one receives the state Old Age Pension and free medical prescriptions. It is truely great and we pay for this service with insurance contributions from our wages whilst we are working.

Of course, it could not be so easy to implement in a country as large as the USA, as in a small island like ours. But, nothing to be scared of.

I just thought I would describe a little of this social system to you and the peace of mind it bestows on just one ordinary working-class family.

We do have private health care insurance btw. Private Hospitals, which are more luxurious and where, if one is not too ill, one can stay without needing to be on the same ward as the common lower classes.

I, personally, do not believe in private health care, or private education. I think that everyone deserves the best possible health care and the best possible education regardless of wealth or social circumstances.......I do not see it as right that one child should die of kidney failure whilst another lives, just because its parents can afford to pay for dyalisis etc.

I cannot see why this philosophy is seen as wrong.

I Feel your pain CWT. Keenly.

Pen, have you ever lived in the US and had to go through the health system here?

I would like to hear more about the NHS, if you have anything to tell.

johnson:

Pen, have you ever lived in the US and had to go through the health system here?

I would like to hear more about the NHS, if you have anything to tell.

I haven't even visited the US let alone lived there. I would love to come over and visit my relations who live in several different States there. I think I would hate to live there though and probably the US would hate to have me because I would be considered a terrible lefty. We see masses of American TV here, and so we get the picture to some extent. Funnily enough, I think it is The Simpsons and Family Guy which give us the truest picture.

We do see horrendous instances in your hospitals where road accident victims or vagrants who are at death's door, being asked if they have medical insurance cover before they are given any treatment.

This doesn't occur here.....yet. If someone is taken to Accident and Emergency needing treatment, it doesn't matter whether they are a Duke or a homeless vagrant....they are just treated automatically, the medical staff have no decision to make, as there is no question of treatment being refused.

Of course, this means the system is open to abuse, and it is abused. Never-the-less it has worked for many years and is only in decline now through mis-management. There is a vast disparity in salaries of specialists, doctors, surgeons compared to ordinary nurses and hospital orderlies. Still, my niece is a nurse and is now at the top of the ladder in her profession and receives an excellent salary. She has only ever worked for the NHS. We are a family of Socialists but in the US there doesn't seem to be seen a difference between Socialism and Communism and there is a great deal of difference.

There are horror stories about the NHS, ie long waiting lists for vital surgical operations (people with private health care cover, queue jumping??) and when Tony Blaire was Prime Minister he vowed to cut waiting times to less than three months for any op., but that, it is alleged, was banjaxed. I can only speak from my own experiences and they have all been good. Our GP's surgery here in the village consists of a group of four doctors and usually one or two locums. We can telephone for an appointment before 9.00 am in the morning, to be seen the same day if the case is urgent. The doctor will prescribe medication and there is a prescription charge of something like, £6.00 per item, unless you are registered unemployed, disabled or elderly (a pensioner) then it is free.

If the cost of the medication would be less than £6.00 to buy over the counter, the doctor will just tell you what to buy and what dosage to take.

As I have said, there is abuse of the system. I sometimes think that a lot of fertility treatment for couples who are having difficulty in conceiving a baby is costing the health service dear. I mean, I don't know that it should be a person's right to have a child.....maybe that should be paid for? Also, there are people in hospital having sex-change operations, costing thousands......seems wrong when there are children born with congenital abnormalities which need lifelong treatment. But, since I haven't ever met a person who wanted a sex-change, I shouldn't judge.

When I was 12 years old, I passed the exam called the 11+ and so was able to go to Grammar School - where kids were given a more academic education. Ordinary Secondary Schools were for training kids to be plumbers and electricians, cooks and housekeepers. Then they brought in the comprehensive system of education and the Grammar Schools were abolished.

Well, I passed for Grammar School but didn't want to go. My mother finally discovered that it was because I would have to wear a felt hat which emphasised my sticking out ears. Our doctor, who was like a family friend, referred me to a plastic surgeon and I was taken into hospital in the city of Manchester and my ears were pinned back. Cosmetic surgery, I suppose. Anyway.....when I saw some of the burns cases in there in the childrens' ward being given plastic surgery...I was thoroughly ashamed of myself for my vanity. Even though I was only 12 years old. But, remember, all this treatment I am mentioning is free. Free, in that we all pay an amount in National Insurance from our wages.

When I was growing up, I suffered from epilepsy. I lived in a one-parent family, with just my Mum. But my epilepsy was treated with drugs until I reached adulthood - the fits began quite mildly in infancy and then became worse as I reached my teens, then disappeared completely as I reached maturity. My condition was continually monitored and my medication altered accordingly until no longer needed. This, however, is what I meant when I said I didn't think I would be alive today without the NHS.

What a long post......sorry.....it is difficult to put some things into few words.

thank you for this.

If you get the impression that the media over here is garbage noise, you are right.

The best sources of news here are satirical comedy shows like The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, and Colbert Report.

Do you see these guys over there at all? They are doing good things here. Regular cable news is pathetic. IF you want to be really informed you have to seek the info out yourself. Democracy suffers under an ill-informed public. Americans feel isolated, like the rest of the world doesn't matter, and that is probably the source of all our misdeeds.

We ARE undereducated as a country. Superstition and fear are the order of the day, sadly. But some of us try to turn this giant-ass boat around with some common sense.

johnson - don't put the US down too much.

We are all influenced by our media....to a greater or lesser degree.

All of Europe has a similar National Health Care system as the UK but America stands against it......propaganda rules...

I haven't seen the TV programmes you mention but I do often think....'Fox News...Boooh...hoo.....'

We were talking over lunch (just), OH and I. Did you never see the Michael Moorcock film 'Sicko'? Did you think it was all a lie? Spread by some Commie bastard? Well, it isn't. It's true.

We watched it in this house and were very impressed with ourselves.

There is a lot we grumble about on this grey little, overcrowded island, but if you get ill, you get fixed, no messing. Honest.

PS - Watergate would never have happened here.

Everything would have been kept undercover........for the duration....

and I bet we will be a long time before we get a black Prime Minister....

There are some fine things about the US......

Don't despair!! It is different for a large continent than for a small island.