• In total there are 35 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 35 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 789 on Tue Mar 19, 2024 5:08 am

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Engage in conversations about worldwide religions, cults, philosophy, atheism, freethought, critical thinking, and skepticism in this forum.
Forum rules
Do not promote books in this forum. Instead, promote your books in either Authors: Tell us about your FICTION book! or Authors: Tell us about your NON-FICTION book!.

All other Community Rules apply in this and all other forums.
User avatar
Interbane

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 7203
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:59 am
19
Location: Da U.P.
Has thanked: 1105 times
Been thanked: 2166 times
United States of America

Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Unread post

I don't agree that everything is either good or evil. Many things are unjudged, neutral. Some things affect us positively, some negatively, and only then do we judge them. But when we do judge them, I don't apply moral qualifiers. I only apply them to the behaviors of people, or people themselves. Sometimes animals, when they're like cujo.

There are many connotations of the word "good". That sunset is good. This Oregon Hazelnut and Salted Caramel ice cream is good(great). But the word "good" in this usage denotes not a moral quality, but an aesthetic quality. When different connotations are intended, it's the same as using a different word entirely; the meaning is different.

I don't think evil has similar connotations. For ice cream I don't like, I don't call it evil. I just say it's bad.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!
Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:36 pm
9
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 131 times

Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Unread post

Flann 5 wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Hi Bishop, So it's not morally evil for a lioness to kill an antelope.
And when she brings the dead antelope to feed her cubs that's quite good morally?
How do you work that out?




That is natural in our world so why would I see it as immoral?

What are you getting at and do it soon as I do not suffer fools well and you know that.
Gnostic Bishop wrote:You did my work on hair and show how good and evil applies to it.

Hair behaving is good. Hair misbehaving is evil.
Do I really have to explain these things to you? You're the expert on morality and all matters good and evil. I guess hair doesn't need to "develop morality" as you put it,since it's already got it, apparently.
Hair does not have morality, people do.
Who said it did?

Hair is just subject to the adjectives of good and evil like everything else you can think of.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!
Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:36 pm
9
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 131 times

Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Unread post

Interbane wrote:I don't agree that everything is either good or evil. Many things are unjudged, neutral. Some things affect us positively, some negatively, and only then do we judge them. But when we do judge them, I don't apply moral qualifiers. I only apply them to the behaviors of people, or people themselves. Sometimes animals, when they're like cujo.

There are many connotations of the word "good". That sunset is good. This Oregon Hazelnut and Salted Caramel ice cream is good(great). But the word "good" in this usage denotes not a moral quality, but an aesthetic quality. When different connotations are intended, it's the same as using a different word entirely; the meaning is different.

I don't think evil has similar connotations. For ice cream I don't like, I don't call it evil. I just say it's bad.
I understand and so would I but the tree in question is the tree of good and evil so I went with those adjectives. I have no problem using synonyms. Good and evil are just two ends of a scale just as good and bad or in your ice cream scenario, sweet and sour of yummy and yucky.

I don't know how morality got into the discussion but it is not the tree of morality, that is a judgement call and the tree of knowledge is just knowledge and facts. Not judgements.

I will blame Flann for introducing morals whether he did or not just to irk him.

My little challenge that all is subject to good and evil has yet to be refuted.

"I don't agree that everything is either good or evil."

I appreciate that for all here but I still seek something that is not subject to those adjectives.

Even if you found something neutral, that neutrality would likely be good but that is a guess till the issue is at hand.

What did you have in mind?

Regards
DL
Last edited by Gnostic Bishop on Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Interbane

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 7203
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:59 am
19
Location: Da U.P.
Has thanked: 1105 times
Been thanked: 2166 times
United States of America

Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Unread post

DL wrote:Even if you found something neutral, that neutrality would likely be good but that is a guess till the issue is at hand.
What connotation of the word "good" are you referring to? They aren't interchangeable, and which one you use changes what you mean.

I don't believe a rock can be morally good or evil. Perhaps with the right minerals it can taste good. Or with the right crystalline structure it can look good. Or in the hands of a maniac it can be used to commit evil. But moral good and moral evil are qualities possessed by agents capable of committing deeds.

A hammer used to murder someone is not evil. The person wielding the hammer is evil.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!
Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:36 pm
9
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 131 times

Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Unread post

Interbane wrote:
DL wrote:Even if you found something neutral, that neutrality would likely be good but that is a guess till the issue is at hand.
What connotation of the word "good" are you referring to? They aren't interchangeable, and which one you use changes what you mean.

I don't believe a rock can be morally good or evil. Perhaps with the right minerals it can taste good. Or with the right crystalline structure it can look good. Or in the hands of a maniac it can be used to commit evil. But moral good and moral evil are qualities possessed by agents capable of committing deeds.

A hammer used to murder someone is not evil. The person wielding the hammer is evil.
I agree but do not equate morals with evil.

For an evil to be immoral it has to be subject to mens rea, Latin for an evil mind. Most law is based on this. Only under that condition can we say someone did something immoral. It has to have intent behind it to be immoral.

Using your rock analogy. The good or evil aspect is determined by the observer.

I can look at a large and interesting rock face all day and think it good, --- but if an earthquake send it flopping onto me, then it becomes quite evil.

That king of logic and reason can apply to everything I can think of.

That is also why the ancients had one tree that held all knowledge and it is to the thinker or observer to decide what belongs where on the good and evil graph knowing that whatever issue is at hand could go to either side depending on circumstances.

Regards
DL
Last edited by Gnostic Bishop on Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Interbane

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 7203
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:59 am
19
Location: Da U.P.
Has thanked: 1105 times
Been thanked: 2166 times
United States of America

Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Unread post

DL wrote:I agree but do not equate morals with evil.
The concept of evil, as I understand it, is necessarily a moral qualifier. A person or deed that is immoral. I equate it with one end of the moral spectrum. I don't use it under any other connotation. Only metaphorically, when available.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!
Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:36 pm
9
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 131 times

Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Unread post

Interbane wrote:[
quote="DL"]I agree but do not equate morals with evil.
The concept of evil, as I understand it, is necessarily a moral qualifier.
Absolutely, when dealing with a properly thinking human.

But many say that earthquakes are evil yet earthquakes are not subject to moral or immoral adjectives as they have no evil intent.

Again. It is the observer who decides if there is moral evil or not.
A person or deed that is immoral. I equate it with one end of the moral spectrum. I don't use it under any other connotation. Only metaphorically, when available.
[/quote]

A person can definitely be evil if he meets the conditions of men rea. An evil mind or intent.

For instance.
An insane person or baby who accidentally or inadvertently kills many could not be found guilty of murder or any other crime.

Regards
DL
Last edited by Gnostic Bishop on Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Interbane

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 7203
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:59 am
19
Location: Da U.P.
Has thanked: 1105 times
Been thanked: 2166 times
United States of America

Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Unread post

DL wrote:Absolutely, when dealing with a properly thinking human.
:clap2:

To be fair, its the case even when dealing with an improperly thinking human. They're just unable to see how they're wrong.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
User avatar
Gnostic Bishop
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!
Posts: 790
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:36 pm
9
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 131 times

Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Unread post

Interbane wrote:
DL wrote:Absolutely, when dealing with a properly thinking human.
:clap2:

To be fair, its the case even when dealing with an improperly thinking human. They're just unable to see how they're wrong.
True.

I was thinking more of sane thinking than proper. My bad.

Regards
DL
User avatar
Flann 5
Nutty for Books
Posts: 1580
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:53 pm
10
Location: Dublin
Has thanked: 831 times
Been thanked: 705 times

Re: Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Unread post

Explanations of where morality comes from seems to depend on worldviews.
For anyone interested in this question here's a recent debate/discussion between John Lennox and Nicholas Christenfeld articulating these conflicting understandings.
It's titled; Sources of Beauty and Morality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkKNTs3tbJ4
Last edited by Flann 5 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply

Return to “Religion & Philosophy”