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Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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BarryW55
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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Chris OConnor wrote:Barry, it seems to me rather silly for you and I to place more trust in your prairie analogy than in the educated opinions of qualified climate scientists who overwhelmingly say we are indeed a primary source of climate change. I don't know about your personal academic credentials but I know I'm not qualified to reject the findings of people who have dedicated their lives to studying this subject matter.

So tell me, when did Al Gore become a scientifically educated climate scientist? All he did was agree to a MAYBE proposition and got rich off it. The prairie example is solid. We are nothing but ants crawling around on that endless prairie. I would venture a guess and say that some people would LOVE to have coal to heat their huts instead of animal dung.
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Chris OConnor

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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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Did I mention Al Gore? Al Gore is a politician not a climate scientist. Introducing him to this discussion is a strawman.

Climate scientists overwhelmingly agree that man is contributing significantly to global warming.
BarryW55
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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Chris OConnor wrote:Did I mention Al Gore? Al Gore is a politician not a climate scientist. Introducing him to this discussion is a strawman.

Climate scientists overwhelmingly agree that man is contributing significantly to global warming.

Strawman? lol He is very relevant. You're right, he is NOT a climate scientist but you can't deny that he has been a MAJOR influence on the regular folk. Obama and Kerry don't know climate science from a hole in the ground but that doesn't stop them from being so dogmatic that they vehemently slap down any opposition. And no, climate scientists do NOT overwhelmingly agree. If you come up with that debunked 97% number I will know that you really don't get it.
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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Science
The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.
I was looking at this definition as more appropriate to the discussion...
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Robert Tulip

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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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BarryW55 wrote:Anyone who thinks man is responsible for climate change is deluded.
Only Exxon Trolls argue like that.
BarryW55
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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LanDroid wrote:
Science
The intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.
I was looking at this definition as more appropriate to the discussion...
Systematic study requires knowledge and natural curiosity of what you are studying. Then, the more you study, the more knowledge you attain. You can call it science if you want. How was penicillin discovered? By knowledge? By science? Or by accident?
BarryW55
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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Robert Tulip wrote:
BarryW55 wrote:Anyone who thinks man is responsible for climate change is deluded.
Only Exxon Trolls argue like that.

And only Solyndra Trolls disagree. :-D
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Interbane

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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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You've read through my links and they go against what YOU think, plain and simple.
And, there are articles and websites that agree with what I think. How should we decide which is correct? Do you not contemplate the differences, and instead just agree with what you already believe?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
Barry wrote: To think we evolved from some lower life form is ridiculous. LOL
That's a fallacy Barry.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity
Barry wrote: I think it stinks that you dismiss out of hand the millions, if not BILLIONS of people that believe God created man from the dust of the ground.
That's another fallacy Barry. Sentence after sentence.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

The fallacies you use in your reasoning mean your reasoning doesn't work. It's a fact born from the examples above. Such poor reasoning is how you develop and maintain false beliefs. You ARE wrong Barry, and your faulty reasoning is a sign you can't ignore. You can turn around and say WE'RE wrong, but the flaws in your reasoning suggest otherwise. Your last two replies to me were filled with fallacious reasoning. There's no reason to think the rest of your worldview isn't similarly faulty.
But of course, your tens of thousands of scientists, that will say ANYTHING to keep their jobs and grant money, are right.
If you knew anything about the self-correcting nature of the scientific enterprise, you'd realize how silly this is. There is no vast conspiracy theory, Barry. The conclusions of science aren't born from a desire for more grant money. They're born from adherence to method. If money had the massive impact you believe, we'd be living in a very different world. Because in that world, money would trump the truth. The vast majority of scientists from all over the world would need to conspire in real time to subvert the results of their findings. The funding department of every government would need to believe the same thing, and influence the scientists in their countries in the same way, and even control their findings in detail. The coordination of belief is something we already know doesn't exist, especially across cultures and between governments, many of which are theocratic. Which means there is some other reason the entire world of scientists have arrived at the same conclusion - because it's true.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evil_Liber ... Conspiracy
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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Great post, Interbane.

One thing I think would be helpful with logical fallacies is to dentify them when they occur AND give an example of that fallacy being committed where it clearly leads to an invalid conclusion. People that use bad reasoning are probably not ever going to go study logical inductive fallacies, suddenly realize their mistakes and then work towards becoming more reasonable.

But maybe with relatable examples of fallacies they might get it without having to go do the necessary research. Not that you or anyone else should have to provide such examples. That sure would be a lot of work for a forum post. But it seems to me like that might help.

I almost feel a fallacy website needs to be created that has each fallacy on a separate page (for easy linking) accompanied by a dozen easy to understand examples of the fallacy.

Maybe this site exists.

In reality poor thinkers still might not get the examples.
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Chris OConnor

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Re: Is Bill Nye really a "science guy" ?

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One question I have is how you would rebut the argument that climate change believers are just jumping on the bandwagon and committing the argument ad populum fallacy.
The ad populum fallacy is the appeal to the popularity of a claim as a reason for accepting it.

The number of people who believe a claim is irrelevant to its truth. Fifty million people can be wrong. In fact, millions of people have been wrong about many things: that the Earth is flat and motionless, for example, and that the stars are lights shining through holes in the sky.

The ad populum fallacy is also referred to as the bandwagon fallacy, the appeal to the mob, the democratic fallacy, and the appeal to popularity.

The ad populum fallacy is seductive because it appeals to our desire to belong and to conform, to our desire for security and safety. It is a common appeal in advertising and politics. A clever manipulator of the masses will try to seduce those who blithely assume that the majority is always right. Also seduced by this appeal will be the insecure, who may be made to feel guilty if they oppose the majority or feel strong by joining forces with large numbers of other uncritical thinkers.
There is clearly a difference between...

1. blindly accepting positions because those positions are popular and
2. trusting in positions held by qualified scientists in their relevant areas of expertise after peer-reviewed research

How would you argue that accepting the conclusions of climate scientists is not the ad populum fallacy?
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