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Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President? 
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
Dear all,
I believe you are all very thoughtful and informed. What I cannot understand is why none of you strike at the core of the problem stated by Chris. "Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?" The political and mechanical system to establish our government in 1789 simply is incapable of providing the means for continuing the ideological beauty of the founding fathers. In 1789 America had a land mass of 13 colonies. It had a population of 1.5 million people. It took 4 months to travel from one end of our country to the other. The focus of our founding fathers was the tyranny caused by the religious concept of the "Divine Right of Kings" which established that only the pope could appoint a ruler of the people. And that he was therefore "God's Anointed." Read most any writing on Henry the Eighth and Sir Thomas More.
If you read "Democracy in America" by the French writer in 1836, DE Tocqueville, he prophesied that as soon as the electorate figured out how to get their hands in the treasury the American experiment would end. Well part of the criticism of Billary, is that they ran the white house like a motel six. You want an 15 minute audience with the president pay $100,000 for a night in the Lincoln Bedroom. And then $ 29 million for speaking fees. You surely can't be that naive.
In this day of the 21 Century, Money is the mother's milk of politics. And what Chris is lamenting is the result of this reality. It is an oxymoron to believe we can have the promises of a government designed by our founding fathers when we have not modified the systems of government that can affect those promises. We can't fix the problem that Chris if lamenting without fixing the political system that elects them. Love, Lawrence

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Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:40 pm
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
Lawrence wrote:
. . . part of the criticism of Billary, is that they ran the white house like a motel six. You want an 15 minute audience with the president pay $100,000 for a night in the Lincoln Bedroom. And then $ 29 million for speaking fees. You surely can't be that naive.
In this day of the 21 Century, Money is the mother's milk of politics. And what Chris is lamenting is the result of this reality. It is an oxymoron to believe we can have the promises of a government designed by our founding fathers when we have not modified the systems of government that can affect those promises. We can't fix the problem that Chris if lamenting without fixing the political system that elects them.'

The support we see for both Trump and Bernie Sanders seems to be fueled by strong sentiment against the oligarchy that our republic has become. Hillary represents a status quo that we can barely stomach. Our government is no longer beholden to the people, but to corporations and Wall Street. I think we may be seeing the beginnings of a revolution.


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Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:34 am
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
OH GEO, I HOPE AT LEAST A CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION. REVOLUTIONS TEND TO SIMPLY PUT SOMEONE OF LIKE ATTITUDE IN PLACE OF WHAT WE HAVE.



Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:26 pm
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
The whole west seems to be eating itself and slicing off portions of itself for others to consume as well. The average person is at a loss for what to think because the age old idea of community, borders, and cultural identity is being ridiculed, tossed out, and considered hate thought/ borderline criminal behavior. The situation may get out of control... the more 'control' is employed. Keep an eye out for escalations like what's happening in Idaho. As for candidates, I'd rather vote for a roach than royalty.



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Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:33 am
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
President Camacho wrote:
the age old idea of community, borders, and cultural identity is being ridiculed, tossed out, and considered hate thought/ borderline criminal behavior.


Welcome back Mr Pres. Yes, your comment here illustrates the rather sad polarization infecting the modern world.

Wouldn't it be lovely to have a totally free and anarchic world with no borders, no property and no rule of law?

Regrettably such a world would rapidly collapse into conflict and poverty.

It is a shame that the young internetistas who are so in theoretical love with refugees espouse the utterly contradictory view that in addition to open borders, governments should increase welfare expenditure, oblivious to debt, deficit and the entire existence of fiscal reality.


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Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:04 am
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
Yes, it's what's making Sanders and Trump a reality but that's already been hit on. The two political parties are so out if touch with their base and can hardly control their own members. Americans see what Muslims are doing, are sure they're being lied to by the news, and are scared and ignorant (sometimes through no real fault of their own in my opinion). This whole globalization thing is forcing workers to compete with slaves, it's lining the pockets of the ultra wealthy, and communities are being gutted and destroyed. I applaud Britain. I hope they have the back bone to keep it going and not fumble. Would love for them to make an example. There's nothing wrong with protecting your home and your cultural identity. Every other culture is allowed to do it, so why not the west? Trump -that clown criminal - is the only one saying anything about it and I like that.



Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:59 am
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
How wonderful we have picked up the real thread.
By what logic, law, value system or spiritual truth is available to us that justifies one person on this planet telling another person on this planet where he/she can live, work, or raise their family? (I would really like anyone to try to answer that question.)

Our boarder system exits, throughout the world, because of power and the way that power has been exercises. The power is the power of the oligarchy in power to keep others out of the space they control. We have a 250,000 year history of living in communities and what we are experiencing now is simply the culmination of the previous generations attempts to deal with the stress of living together. Remember, Dostoevsky's the Brothers Karamazov. When the medical doctor went to the monk in the first 100 pages, he wanted the monk to teach him how not to be irritated by the person in the room with him whose breathing, coughing, and simple presence was a bother to him. He had dedicated his life to the altruistic value of helping people,but he was failing in his personal relations. Folks=surprise, surprise=the world is failing in its personal relations!

I hate to be pedantic but I explained why in my little book, "A Cry From The Heart." None of you, except Chris, thought I was saying anything of value. Well maybe now, the tension is at the right pressure for thoughtful people to consider maybe I'm saying something useful. Enjoy, and Happy 4th of July. A lot of people have died for what they believed was true. I believe it is the responsibility of those of us who live, to expose the sham and reveal the truth. L



Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:33 am
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
You've excluded my unstated, personal position and one implied by Tulip when he mentioned property.

Borders ARE about people. Having no borders puts people into direct conflict and benefit those in power as effectively as a tyrant with closed borders.

People in the west who have built communities and given their life dollars to do so want returns for their own. Do you know what I mean by life dollars? They've fought and worked for a product they've achieved - whatever that end product may be. You have people who get to piggy back on that, you have politicians giving tax money away to corporations, people, other countries without even having the courtesy of asking them if it'd be ok. They move hundreds or thousands of refuges into towns that can't assimilate them and the town takes on a whole new culture. They sign trade agreements that send their jobs overseas. Construction workers, pool guys, landscapers, painters, and on are forced to compete with illegal immigrants who pay no taxes. People are paying to get sh*t on.



Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:29 pm
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
My dearest Camacho,
We have been correspondents for many years to my pleasure, but you did not answer my question, "By what authority does one person tell another person where they can live, work, and raise their family on this planet." Your answer "PROPERTY" is simply the unstated simplistic surface acknowledgement of "I got mine, how you doin?"

Your last paragraph of how the current oligarchies are dealing with a planet of too few assets for too many people does not answer my question but only emphasizes my premise that power rules, not reason or logic. When too few have food and shelter and too many do not, does your thought provide the solution to how we share? I think not. Are you saying the haves have no duty to share with the have nots? Then say that and we will start another thread.



Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:13 pm
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
Lawrence wrote:
By what authority does one person tell another person where they can live, work, and raise their family on this planet.

All countries have laws, regulations, and in some cases constitutions that control immigration and naturalization.



Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:25 pm
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
Hi Lawrence,

-please feel free to move this to another area- don't want to seem like I'm derailing the OT but it's all topical as to why Trumpers/Berners have been so vocal and so active.

I believe I answered the question in my own way and it appears you've interpreted the message. You're not that far off, to your probable consternation. My thinking, the way I'm wired, is in a direction that sees the government as being of the people, by the people, and for the people of that state. You see, I'm a nationalist. I believe in borders, I believe in political experiment, and I believe that those who put forth work to make something should reap the benefit of it - if they choose to share that with others, I congratulate them/ if they choose to use that to harm others, you'll find me moving in the opposite direction in degrees warranted by the reasons they've chosen to do so.

We got ours, how you doin?

I like that. Nothing wrong with friendly competition. Look at this country's particular experiment concerning any number of topics from healthcare to education to food production... what are they doing that works and what are they doing that doesn't work? How have they employed technology to make use of their resources?

I like that you said too many people and too few assets. When I was a kid we could fill up a cooler full of fish and lobster in the boat by noon. Today, we're lucky 3 days into lobster season to get our limit. This is one small example that for you is meaningless but drives me mad. The oceans are being overfished. More regulation is needed.

More people equals more regulation. More people WILL mean less freedom. I use to be able to ride my dirtbikes around my home and drive 100 mph down krome avenue. Today, because of all the new construction, you're lucky if you can go 35mph down krome avenue as the city has decided to install plastic median cones in an effort to eliminate fatalities caused by an ever increasing amount of traffic on this once rural road. It's packed with cars now and resembles much of the traffic here in Miami. I used to live in the boonies and now my childhood 'neighborhood' of farms and nurseries is quickly being packed with people that there is NO infrastructure to support.

Why do we need more people????

The truth is, we don't. We should be giving our people better education and getting ready for the next great leap forward, which I believe we're on the cusp of. As we watch the decline of christians and whites and the rise of blacks, hispanics, and muslims.... (I am hispanic) I get scared for whites a little. Why are they doing this to themselves? The only people they seem to import are not really other whites but predominately members of other races with RADICALLY different religious, cultural, and political bases.

I see their own laws being used against them. Have you read about Sweden? This country is being destroyed. It's now the rape capital of Europe owing to the huge number of refuges they've taken in. They're a welfare state whose laws have been used against them to support immigrants at the cost of the Swedish people. You also have to be very careful what you say against muslims there because it may be considered hate speech. If you say something against muslim immigrants on the internet you can be prosecuted there.

Look at how many Cubans came to Miami. There are very, very little white people left there. Have you heard of white flight? It's real. I went to elementary school and most of the kids were white. By high school there were like 3 in my whole huge class of hundreds of graduating students.

The population did not have a chance to acclimate. There were so many of them (cuban refuges) that there are huge areas in south Florida where English is NOT spoken or read. They fly the flags from where they came from, have stickers on their cars which read 'My heart is in ________' (place any latin american country in the blank), and I've been told by some people that they have no intention on teaching their children english. I've seen manuals on how to get welfare the best way possible by not getting married, getting pregnant, having your man work but you collect welfare so that the house, food, kids, doctors are all paid for.

This area that was created in south florida is now a magnet for the entire central and south american countries to come. All well and fine if you don't care about having a country with borders...

Look at the Mexican immigration crisis. This is an invasion. They're taking the land back, out reproducing whites, and flying the Mexican flag. This is really happening.


Alright, enough on that because it turned into a rant - which probably looks racist to some people. Does anyone else wonder what's going on with white people????? I'm super curious.



BACK ON TOPIC:

Lawrence, I was a Bernie supporter, believe it or not. He has some crazy ideas but I really like where he's headed for the most part about busting up the banks, taking money out of government, and so on. That was worth trying to battle his other ideas once he was in office such as rescuing Puerto Rico financially.

Let's concentrate on feeding our people, educating our people, protecting our environment, and taking care of our vets before we decide to keep on rescuing other people and giving them 'forever homes' in America.

You ever see a country that's starving? You ever see them stop having kids? I've never heard of one. I've never heard of a country that is both simultaneously starving and has decided to stop having kids in order to feed everyone.

Think on that Lawrence. You really need to take a minute, a breath, have a beer or a glass of wine, and just say to yourself: What if I was in a country that was starving and we kept producing children and never changed how we did things? Then attempt to imagine that there was no where left to 'go'.


Think about who you let in your ship and when you do - have you asked your shipmate/neighbor if he's ok with that, too? do you feel you owe him that? If he says no, what will you do? Respect his wishes or use the money he's earned by trading his life for dollars in order to do something he doesn't want.

Why is Nationalism losing? I honestly think we need to take a break from immigration for a little while and the reason is population. We don't need more people. We need Less people. We need smarter people. We need more responsible people. Above all we need a little COHESION and national identity and pride - not so much confusion on what's right or what's wrong anymore.

I went way off topic again, my apologies.



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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
LanDroid, you are not digging quite deep enough to answer my question. Who gave the governments the power? Historically, the same authority that gives an 800 pound gorilla the right to get what it wants when it wants it. Most boarders have been set by war. What I want the readers to realize is that just because it has always been that way doesn't mean we can't change it to effect a more peaceful world. But first, we need to agree on what the problem is before we can agree on a solution.

Pres, I'll need more time to craft a response to your comment.



Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:07 pm
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
This information from fivethirtyeight.com (poll analysis experts) MIGHT calm some folks down. Or not.
Donald Trump Has A 20 Percent Chance Of Becoming President. However, this Doesn’t Mean Clinton Is A Sure Thing.
:hmm: :shock: :x :P



Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:13 pm
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
Lawrence wrote:
LanDroid, you are not digging quite deep enough to answer my question. Who gave the governments the power?

You asked "By what authority...." and I answered your question directly. If you want to move on to anarchy or other systems where governments are eliminated, well.....dunno.....maybe you should write a science fiction novel?



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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
Time's current issue is about 240 things that are great in america. I ask you LanDroid, does a ballet perform by regulations or agreement? Are cars manufactured by regulations or agreement? Is football played by regulations or agreement? Are our roads and bridges and airplane routes built by regulations or agreement. Just because you believe a society cannot function without an oligarchy using force to impose its will on the people does not mean it cannot be accomplished. All I'm saying is that it is past time to sit down and see if there is a more effective system that can be designed to enable our society to live in peace. That is not science fiction it just takes the personal fortitude of men and women to think outside the box, be committed to it and suffer the rebukes of small minded persons who simply don't understand. Like the men and their women did in 1776.



Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:08 am
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