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Introduction to The Hobbit 
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
stahrwe wrote:
DWILL with his myth comment has ventured into seriously dangerous territory.


aye cap'n but we be the fearless sort here y' know :lol:

ye aint scared of a little myth are ye cap'n :D



Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:25 pm
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
A more important question is whether or not you are scared of a big myth.
Are you?


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Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
NO :)



Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:50 pm
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
stahrwe wrote:
Geo's comment is well done and I learned something from it.

DWILL with his myth comment has ventured into seriously dangerous territory.

One question: why am I blamed for something said by catholiceducation.org? Then is TLOTR history, as a college professor I spoke to said students in the 60s would tell him?

Oops, that was two questions.



Last edited by DWill on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:00 pm
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
stahrwe wrote:
A more important question is ...
Are you?


what? more important because you ask it.

stahrwe, you consistently twist and turn and avoid all the substantial questions and issues, it seems to bug the hell out of you that many people on this board dont subscribe to your narrow minded religious BS.

we are doing just fine without historical jesus, and the doctrine of eternal damnation etc etc

you never put up your definition, you never commit to a position, you dont respond honestly to the various issues various posters raise.

tell me what you honestly believe and lets see if it's defensible.

i've seen you and ants posts shot to hell time and time again, and instead of an honest conversation it seems all you really want is to feel that in spite of the fact that reasonable people take issue and describe in great detail very rational issues with your posts you can just claim the high ground and there is no need for you to actually put forward a reasoned response.

you duck and dive so much i cant get a bead on your arguments assuming you actually have any.

anyways i'm just expressing my frustration honestly...

sheesh,



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Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:01 pm
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
youkrst, maybe it's time to bring out into the open what The Return of Stahrwe is meant to be about. Maybe stahrwe himself should say what he has in mind as far as his interactions with us are concerned. I guess what I'm saying is that we might not want to jump to conclusions that it's the same old stahrwe. And maybe in some ways we need to make an effort not to be the same old "us," either.



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Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:34 pm
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
Sorry if this is curmudgeonly, but regarding "The Hobbit" movies, why has Peter Jackson decided to make 3 films out of that one book? The books of the trilogy, all much longer than The Hobbit, got but one film each. The Hobbit is a charming book, but giving it super-epic treatment is surely a mistake. The reviews of the first installment are uneven, unlike the critical reception for the other Rings movies. Some of the reviews point to lack of substance as the film's major failing.

http://moviereviewintelligence.com/movi ... d_journey/



Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:58 am
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
DWill wrote:
Sorry if this is curmudgeonly, but regarding "The Hobbit" movies, why has Peter Jackson decided to make 3 films out of that one book? The books of the trilogy, all much longer than The Hobbit, got but one film each. The Hobbit is a charming book, but giving it super-epic treatment is surely a mistake. The reviews of the first installment are uneven, unlike the critical reception for the other Rings movies. Some of the reviews point to lack of substance as the film's major failing.

http://moviereviewintelligence.com/movi ... d_journey/


I initially thought Jackson would do a good job with The Hobbit which has a more concise storyline and is a more filmable project than TLOTR. But three movies? To be honest, I found TLOTR to be a rather bloated, self-indulgent affair. The reviews don't surprise me. How do you divide The Hobbit into three separate storylines? I wonder if the Tolkien estate was supportive of the three-movie approach or did the studio itself want to have a cash cow.


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Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:11 am
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
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Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:23 am
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
I agree the treatment is far too epic for the hobbit. This is a more light-hearted story than LOTR, and should probably be treated accordingly.
I liked Jackson's treatment of the characters... The trolls are funny and stupid, the goblins are suitably gruesome (yet the goblin king is caricaturesque and somewhat funny) the elves are haughty, the dwarves are lovable and easy to empathize with, gollum is pitiful and scary as always.... But three, three hour movies? Excessive...

And let's face it, Jackson's pacing isn't great. The movie is sloooow. Which isn't surprising considering he's trying to stretch the story far beyond its breaking point.

I still liked it xD. To my mind these movies bring middle earth to life in a way the books can't. The beautiful rolling vistas, the mountain passes, the deep caverns.... I love seeing it like this because I never actually imagined it so. Sure, I've stood on mountain tops and thought to myself "I wonder if this is what the misty mountains looked like", fantasized about goblin strongholds, the dragon's hoard, the necromancer in mirkwood, etc.
But this movie brings these things to life, and I love that.
Actually that's what I loved about the LOTR movies too. I had the good fortune of finishing my first read of LOTR exactly as the movies were coming out. I couldn't believe it. Here I was reading this really old fantasy trilogy which I thought must be somewhat obscure and not very well liked (in my infinite teenage wisdom I thought I had discovered something only I could truly appreciate), thinking it would be awesome to see the white city, rivendell, the battle at helm's deep, tom bombadil, elves, orcs, wizards, etc. And out of nowhere I'm walking through a mall and see a LOTR poster. I'm pretty sure my jaw literally dropped, and I know I didn't move from that spot for at least 15 minutes. That very day I got to see the first LOTR movie.
And then there's the stone giants, which I didn't expect at all. And that was awe inspiring and amazing. I loved that scene because I'd barely given the stone giants any real though. I knew they were big, I'd never thought to make them that big.

I think the main reason that I like these movies is that they're pulled off with an excellent level of technical skill, with a suitable art direction and a budget that will probably never come this story's way ever again.
I'll watch these movies alone if I have to xD, but I've totally gotta get me some dragon fighting action, and some scenes of mirkwood, possibly some more necromancer. It's probably too much to ask for, but what I really want to see is the silmarillion. I want to see the ainur, see a thousand streaming elven banners arrayed agains Morgoth, I want to see silver telperion and golden laurelin, see gondolin before its fall, not to mention the silmarils themselves.



Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:27 am
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
DWill wrote:
Sorry if this is curmudgeonly, but regarding "The Hobbit" movies, why has Peter Jackson decided to make 3 films out of that one book? The books of the trilogy, all much longer than The Hobbit, got but one film each. The Hobbit is a charming book, but giving it super-epic treatment is surely a mistake. The reviews of the first installment are uneven, unlike the critical reception for the other Rings movies. Some of the reviews point to lack of substance as the film's major failing.

http://moviereviewintelligence.com/movi ... d_journey/



Why make 3 films? Simple. Money.



Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:37 am
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
Oh, yeah, forgot that one! Like geo, I found the LOTR movies to be windy and kind of hokey. And the books were a little like that for me, too. You have to really love this genre, and it's just not my favorite one. There seems to be agreement, though, that Tolkien is at the top of the genre.



Last edited by DWill on Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:40 pm
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
tbarron wrote:
I've also read that some have tried to read it as a description of WWII, and that J.R.R. Tolkien himself was appalled by all such attempts to find connections between his fantasy world and real world history.


I've heard theories about it being based on WWII but I never heard that JRR had denied them. As I was watching the movie I thought that the elves could have easily been France.



Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:56 pm
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
Perhaps some of you who tend to be frustrated that I do not jump through your hoops preferring, no, let me say instead - setting my own agenda, would do well to redirect their frustration to educating themselves as to what Tolkien had to say when he school Lewis on what myth is.

Most of what you believe is confused if not clearly wrong on the issue.


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Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:16 pm
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Post Re: Introduction to The Hobbit
I liked the Hobbit overall. I took some issues with the ludicrous luck they dwarves had throughout, falling off ledges time and again to be caught by someone, who also falls and is also caught.

That's a fine gag and i wouldn't be mad to see it happen on screen, but i believe it went down 2 or three times in the first hobbit, and i'm betting it will happen again.

That was kind of irking me a bit until i put it through the lens that this is really Bilbo's retelling of what happened. The LOTR movies were sort of in the moment events that we tracked from start to finish without a narrator. The hobbit will be told by Bilbo, and like Gandalf said at the begining when describing the invention of Golf, this tale will be seasoned with tall-ness.

Also, Radagahst was driving me nuts.


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In the absence of God, I found Man.
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Have you tried that? Looking for answers?
Or have you been content to be terrified of a thing you know nothing about?

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?

Confidence being an expectation built on past experience, evidence and extrapolation to the future. Faith being an expectation held in defiance of past experience and evidence.


Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:33 pm
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