Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:16 pm





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 1, 4.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 4.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 4.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 4.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 4.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Tenured Professor


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3564
Location: Michigan
Thanks: 1321
Thanked: 1150 times in 843 posts
Gender: Male

Post Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
i agree that dismissive and even hostile comments are occasionally called for.

Not to "shout someone down" as in to prevent their ability to express terrible and fraudulent ideas, but certainly to point out how terrible and fraudulent they are.

Not that i have anything particularly strong to say about the topic of this thread. But certainly when people say ridiculous things they must be exposed as ridiculous. And the more ridiculous, the more strongly i am likely to respond.

I've certainly done it when i thought it was needed.

book-suggestion-defy-your-doctor-and-be-healed-t15974.html


_________________
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Have you tried that? Looking for answers?
Or have you been content to be terrified of a thing you know nothing about?

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?

Confidence being an expectation built on past experience, evidence and extrapolation to the future. Faith being an expectation held in defiance of past experience and evidence.


The following user would like to thank johnson1010 for this post:
Robert Tulip
Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:00 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

Diamond Contributor

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4898
Location: Florida
Thanks: 177
Thanked: 344 times in 294 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
One need not be vulgar responding to the immature and uneducated. One may do what I do - ignore them.


_________________
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1

where n are natural numbers.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:09 am
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Platinum Contributor

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6335
Location: Luray, Virginia
Thanks: 1839
Thanked: 2028 times in 1536 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
johnson1010 wrote:
i agree that dismissive and even hostile comments are occasionally called for.

Not to "shout someone down" as in to prevent their ability to express terrible and fraudulent ideas, but certainly to point out how terrible and fraudulent they are.

Not that i have anything particularly strong to say about the topic of this thread. But certainly when people say ridiculous things they must be exposed as ridiculous. And the more ridiculous, the more strongly i am likely to respond.

I've certainly done it when i thought it was needed.

book-suggestion-defy-your-doctor-and-be-healed-t15974.html


I see a difference between what you did in that post and what I'm talking about. It's this type of thing that I mean, and that I just get tired of:

"but just invent malicious and stupid distortions based on your obsolete religious views.

stupid slogans,

appallingly offensive and stupid

completely crazy

semi-medieval propaganda

not something that will give you the intellectual equivalent of intestinal worms.

incredibly stupid and dangerous"

Robert, excuse me, but you accuse another of propaganda while using the language of propaganda yourself (at times). You accuse of ad hominem while doing so yourself. Merely labeling people or their arguments as stupid doesn't count as argument. Savage indignation can be well done (as Dr. Swift showed), but it isn't done with such blunt instruments. And why should "tactics" play a part when we're just here talking about things? I guess I'm also recommending lightening up.



The following user would like to thank DWill for this post:
WhoaMrsBetty
Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:09 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5481
Thanks: 1302
Thanked: 889 times in 763 posts
Gender: None specified
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
Quote:
Robert, excuse me, but you accuse another of propaganda while using the language of propaganda yourself (at times). You accuse of ad hominem while doing so yourself. Merely labeling people or their arguments as stupid doesn't count as argument. Savage indignation can be well done (as Dr. Swift showed), but it isn't done with such blunt instruments. And why should "tactics" play a part when we're just here talking about things? I guess I'm also recommending lightening up.


As we are all accustomed to, DWill has expressed the above in his usual civil, cordial, and gentlemanly manner.

I am not without fault, but wholeheartedly agree with what's been expressed.

It IS in fact propaganda that's shamelessly tossed around. I've said this several times myself.



Last edited by ant on Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:16 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5823
Location: Canberra
Thanks: 2283
Thanked: 2211 times in 1671 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Australia (au)

Post Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
This thread presents a study in various forms of propaganda, and in the need to put comments in context. DWill’s view that this is “just talking about things” neglects the extent to which such discussion is a serious matter.

For example, I said “Jaki's idea of a linear cosmology is incredibly stupid and dangerous, as it embeds the idea we are headed for destruction rather than renewal, and that this apocalyptic destruction is somehow the will of God.”
This is not an ad hominem criticism, but rather a specific analysis of how obsolete ideology is the sort of thing that leads to ships hitting icebergs, to use the Titanic as analogy. No one would say the captain of the Titanic should have ignored people calling him incredibly stupid and dangerous for his cavalier view about his indestructible ship.

Church propaganda does in fact present a linear path from Eden to Armageddon. Now some may see that as innocuous and safe, but I don’t. DWill sees "nothing to be afraid of" in the promotion of catholic fantasy, whereas my view is that a transformation of Christianity is rather urgently needed to reconcile it with science.

http://thepropagandaproject.wordpress.c ... ropaganda/ explains that propaganda comes in shades of white, black, and gray. White propaganda is honest and transparent persuasion, while black propaganda is credited to a false source and spreads lies, fabrications, and deception. Gray propaganda is somewhere in between, with dubious sourcing and accuracy.

I submit that my persuasion efforts here are a much lighter shade than those of the original propagandists, the Roman Church, and of their advocates here who have spread disinformation about themes such as tyranny, communism, science and atheism. For information on the great inspirers of Dr Goebbels see the Sacred Congregation of Propaganda http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12456a.htm.

Of the provocative comments I have made in this thread in response to the Catholic disinformation campaign, I don’t think any are untrue, unfair or ad hominem when read in context. There is something ‘semi-medieval’ about Mariolatry, and about the author’s argument that "...the Catholic Church has a legitimate right and authority to veto scientific conclusions which directly contradict divinely revealed dogma." My comment about worms was essentially a book review, and is fair comment. It really is that bad.

My comments about malice were in response to such gems from ant as “the arguments presented by the resident atheists are not for the goal of truth”, his calling me an “atheist communist” who apparently wants to ban and burn all books with a religious slant, and his opening line about “atheists that have more than one brain cell”. Now poor ant is talking about being “civil, cordial, and gentlemanly”, having clumsily tried to stuff his bloody mace back in its scabbard.


_________________
http://rtulip.net


The following user would like to thank Robert Tulip for this post:
youkrst
Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:39 am
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Owner
Diamond Contributor 3

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 16169
Location: Florida
Thanks: 3492
Thanked: 1326 times in 1045 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
Should this thread be moved into the new forum for "Science Was Born of Christianity: The Teaching of Fr. Stanley L. Jaki - by Stacy Trasancos"?



Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:58 pm
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5481
Thanks: 1302
Thanked: 889 times in 763 posts
Gender: None specified
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
No



Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:07 pm
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
One with Books

Silver Contributor

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2751
Thanks: 2298
Thanked: 731 times in 626 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
from the OP to many of the replies this thread deals with the book

this from the OP

Quote:
FOREWORD

I warmly recommend this book written by Stacy Trasancos on the Christian basis and inspiration for the birth of modern science according to Fr. Stanley Jaki OSB, the great philosopher of science and theologian, member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences and Templeton prize-winner. The author has made a great effort and has succeeded in making Fr. Jaki’s ideas available to a larger public. Her goal is to inform more people about what Fr. Jaki actually meant by this claim that Christianity stimulated the birth of science because it is significant for people (young adults especially) to understand that faith and science are not opposed, and are indeed complementary.


also many of the posts deal with the book directly

so i would say it belongs in the forum dedicated to the book.

but perhaps there are good reasons for leaving it in the wild as well.

ahem...

oh Lord, Thou who knowest where the thread should go
please guide our beloved administrator as he attempts to solve this sensibly.
let us not depend on the "arm of flesh" or "carnal reasoning"
let us not stray to Satan's domain
just help Chris know where thou wouldst have the thread

we ask in the name above all names, the mighty name of Krishna... oh shit wrong deity, thou knowest i meant Jesus not Krishna oh Lord...

what's that Lord? "six of one half a dozen of the other"

Lord, art thou also a heretic?

:adore: :omg4: :joke:

and if LanDroid should post "Yes" in the reply after next then know assuredly that I the Lord have posted it for a sign to you of my most holy desire. (damn you edit tag :-D )



Last edited by youkrst on Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:56 am, edited 3 times in total.



Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:00 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5823
Location: Canberra
Thanks: 2283
Thanked: 2211 times in 1671 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Australia (au)

Post Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
Chris OConnor wrote:
Should this thread be moved into the new forum for "Science Was Born of Christianity: The Teaching of Fr. Stanley L. Jaki - by Stacy Trasancos"?


Yes please.


_________________
http://rtulip.net


Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:10 am
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Book Discussion Leader
BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2079
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Thanks: 79
Thanked: 782 times in 605 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
In answer to youkrst's prayer, Yes. :-D



Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:22 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Owner
Diamond Contributor 3

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 16169
Location: Florida
Thanks: 3492
Thanked: 1326 times in 1045 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: How Christianity Ended the Tyranny of the Great Year and Freed Intellectual Investigation
OK, I'll move it in there now.



The following user would like to thank Chris OConnor for this post:
stahrwe
Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:01 am
Profile Email WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 1, 4.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 4.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 4.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 4.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 4.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
How To Promote Your Book





BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2019. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank