Im in

If anyone wants to get the ball rolling, with a new discussion on religion, start a new thread and make a first post.

Chris OConnor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 9:41 am If anyone wants to get the ball rolling, with a new discussion on religion, start a new thread and make a first post.

I miss those days when folks would come on BT and make outlandish claims about the earth being six thousands years old, or about evolution not being real, or that Catholics aren't "true" Christians. There's apparently a growing contingent that says the earth is flat, but these folks aren't hanging around on BT.

My theory is a lot of crazy is being commandeered by the Trump cult, which if you look carefully is mostly supported by White evangelical Protestants, especially those who still go to church.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... p-in-2020/

Irrational religious beliefs don't much come into play with this kind of devotion to Trump and his ilk, only an attraction to authoritarianism. (Freedom and democracy are not very appealing to this demographic for whatever reason). And our news media doesn't have the time or space to devote to irrational beliefs when there's so much of this other type of crazy going around.

In short religious belief has been greatly politicized, mostly because Republicans can't let go of that 20%-40% who have become Trump cultists.

Geo is on it - many christians don't recognize they have abandoned principles to support Trump and pursue power.

I'm thinking about starting a thread attempting to discuss or perhaps even map the fracturing of Christianity. From obvious schisms to upcoming splits where denominations are separating based on LGBT attitudes, to even a few that actually believe Trump is The Messiah. Not sure that qualifies as a debate, but it might lure in a few trolls.

If we don't like that, we could set up a provocative question for debate.

P01135809
20 - 24 Years

Trolling in here
There’s an adage: god,guns and guts built America…it’s bullshit of course. Though savagery is part of the history of the American people and the expansion of the lands that are ours. It does not follow that religion is entirely to blame.
I’d argue that greed has more to do with troubles both past and present. In particular the greed necessary to be able to look past any cultural fragmentation and focus solely upon the task of garnering wealth via that very mechanism of divided cultural/political ideology.
There are plenty of people who are weak minded without the aiding and abetting of religious ideologies to dumb them down further.
Here I harken back to the BookTalk discussion of Colin Woodard’s classic book “American Character “. In the book there is a carefully crafted argument that Libertarianism has done greater harm to American society than any combined efforts of the religious.
I think that with the death of Christopher Hitchens and the aging of the four horsemen, the front line of the argument for the likely non existence of a god, simply lost its steam.
AronRa, Matt Dillahunty have certainly proved themselves as worthy successors.
The atheist community is simply too good at debunking the foundations of religion.
The scientific method is not for the management of morality. Pre-religious people still had to mussel their way through the problems of…is and ought.

Toodles.



I

Religion is an interesting subject and one I'm quite eager and excited to discuss.

In the real world I find people shy away from such discussions, Why?.perhaps people are to single minded and steadfast in their own religion that they are not open to other people's religion or views.
That being said I was raised Christian the father of my kids was raised Mormon. However neither of us have pressed that onto our kids. He doesn't in fact believe in God he's not sure what to believe in. I also am unsure what to believe in I cannot specify what religion I am cause I'm still uncertain. I have however dabbled in wiccanism as well as Christian wiccanism. Those are my most comfortable spaces I suppose.
My children are encouraged to choose their own path and beliefs and are able to openly talk to me about it without judgment. They are still trying to figure it out. My oldest seems to be more towards wiccanism my middle is unsure if she believes in anything and my youngest doesn't even think about it. But they are all good people with big loving hearts and willing to help anyone in need.

Because maybe we've realised along the way, that such debates are equivalent to debating which lie better constructed than another?

Yes, yes, I tend to simplify things too much, but when it all comes crashing down... The only thing religion really is... It's just a fear based system to keep people in line. Just like society in general. Everything is based on the fears of insignificant individuals and not very significant groups.

Sure, we need such systems in order to exist in larger groups, but there is nothing of worth in any of them, aside from whatever values the individuals had invested in these constructs.

The same goes for material wealth. None of it has any more significance than declaring possession over a pile of scrap metal, if you remove the people's investment into 'gold is precious' or 'if you have tons of money, you can make it through life easy'

This same applies to religion, take away everyone's interest in some unprovable concepts and systems of lies, and the whole thing becomes like a squabble between two drunken homeless people over who gets the cardboard... Utterly meaningless and useless.

Cheers