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Here is why Strong Atheism is a religion

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ant

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Here is why Strong Atheism is a religion

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http://maverickphilosopher.typepad.com/ ... igion.html


So "weak atheism" does not make the positive claim "God does not exist" Therefore, it needs no evidence for its proposition.
If weak atheism simply means a lack of god-belief then this chair I'm sitting on right now is an atheist. And so is this phone in my hand. And that rock I stepped on outside.
It's really absurd when you start to think about it.



Note also that if you deny that any god exists, then you are denying that the universe is created by God: you are saying something quite positive about the ontological status of the universe, namely, that it does not depend for its existence on a being transcendent of it.
Positive claims need Evidence.
But the atheist plays the childish game .., "Nah Nah.., you can't make me say it that way!!"
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Re: Here is why Strong Atheism is a religion

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ant wrote:If weak atheism simply means a lack of god-belief then this chair I'm sitting on right now is an atheist. And so is this phone in my hand. And that rock I stepped on outside.
It's really absurd when you start to think about it.
The author of the article pointed out that this is uncharitable. Tables aren't capable of having beliefs.
Maverick Philosopher wrote:If lacking god-belief makes him an atheist, then lacking god-disbelief makes him a theist.
How is it possible to actually lack a disbelief? In the only cases I can think of where it might make sense, the position is agnostic, since there is no ontological substance. The problem has to be considered before lacking a disbelief would have ontological weight. This is uncharitable as well.
Maverick Philosopher wrote:What's more, if there is no creator God, then the apparent order of the universe, its apparent designedness, is merely apparent. This is a positive thesis about the nature of the physical universe.
Apparent designedness and godlessness are not mutually exclusive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Re: Here is why Strong Atheism is a religion

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But rocks do not believe in God
Therefore rocks are atheists, minus the uncharitableness we grant strong atheism.
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Robert Tulip

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Re: Here is why Strong Atheism is a religion

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A number of the atheists at booktalk.org have advanced the no-balls weak atheist theory that atheism consists solely in lack of belief.

With respect, that theory of weak atheism is rubbish. Real atheism is a religious faith. If you believe that the universe exists and is governed by laws of physics that can be discovered by evidence and logic, you hold to the faith of atheism. If you doubt that the universe exists you are just wrong.

The nature of atheism is part of the cultural evolution of the memes of reason and faith, and is among the most fascinating questions in the history of ideas. The emergence of the timid weak cuck-atheism of pure non-belief actually has a superb philosophical pedigree within the meme of reason, but this good pedigree is now tired and incoherent and in need of sharp analysis, rejuvenation and revision.

The primary progenitor of weak atheism is the great philosopher of science Karl Popper, in his great book The Open Society and Its Enemies. For Popperian thinking dating from the era of the mid twentieth century, weak atheism is the essence of political liberalism and skepticism, and the great bulwark against the emergence of new totalitarians like Hitler and Stalin.

Popper argued against all faith, saying the scientific method of falsification provided a completely sufficient theory of knowledge, in which all belief can eventually become redundant, superseded by knowledge. Unfortunately this positivist idea implies that there is no meaning outside science, and is a pure myth.

Popper argues that liberal democracy is the only form of government allowing institutional improvements without violence and bloodshed, and that faith is profoundly illiberal because it asserts access to absolute truth in an unscientific way. This argument poses the challenge of developing a liberal tolerant faith that still has the hard edge of absolute belief, without the cultural relativist fallacy that contradictory beliefs can be equally true.

We see such a framework of absolute liberal tolerance in the gospels, in the Beatitudes and Last Judgement, where the amazing evolutionary principle is expressed that the meek shall inherit the earth. This seemingly absurd idea involves respect and even veneration for all who are shunted to the margins of the world of power and wealth. It calls for an absolute transformation of human values as a basis for cultural evolution, through a pure faith that has essential principles to prevent totalitarian collapse.

Popper’s reaction against totalitarian politics led him to the opposite extreme of a liberal support for cultural relativism, with his critique of theories of teleological historicism, according to which history unfolds inexorably according to universal laws. Such rejection of the orderly explanation of history involves an extreme skepticism, which today has devolved into weak atheism.

Actually, Popper’s imagined separation of history from universal law is profoundly unscientific, since the planetary history of earth is a part of the physical evolution of the cosmos, an evolution which can be studied to see the teleology of history, the ultimate purpose and meaning of human life, rebinding heaven and earth within a purely materialist scientific strong atheist framework of faith.
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Re: Here is why Strong Atheism is a religion

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Ant wrote:But rocks do not believe in God
That's why rocks will be joining you, most of the members of BookTalk, and all the sub-atomic particles in the universe in an Eternal Hell, for not believing in Jesus.
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Re: Here is why Strong Atheism is a religion

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LanDroid wrote:
Ant wrote:But rocks do not believe in God
That's why rocks will be joining you, most of the members of BookTalk, and all the sub-atomic particles in the universe in an Eternal Hell, for not believing in Jesus.

You'll be there setting things up for us, lib.
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Re: Here is why Strong Atheism is a religion

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Atheism is not a religion, and it is also generic. The opposite of atheism isn't Christianity, or Shinto... it's Theism which is also generic.

Atheism is a trait. It's a single answer to a single question.

"Do you believe in a god? No."

There are a lot of different ways of life that incorporate that answer and they are not all identical.

There is a definite difference between a world view and a religion. And a philosophy and a religion. Believing something very strongly doesn't make it a religion.

People's world view or their philosophies influence whether or not they believe. A person might be an atheist because they believe in methodological naturalism. So they are Methodological naturalists, and THAT is their philosophy. If you want to be wrong about calling them religious, it's THAT that you should be trying to call a religion. They philosophy at least has something to say about how the world works and what counts as truth.

The word atheist doesn't even make a truth claim about the external world. It's a statement about what you believe.

RT, you might want to call your philosophy and version of religion atheism, but that word already has a definition. You can't get upset with the rest of the world for not going along with your new definition. There are atheists all over the planet who don't believe the things you do. Even atheists who are religious, or believe in auras or prophetic signs in the sky, or psychic energy. I don't believe in any of that. I don't share their world view or philosophy. Yet they and I are all atheists. BECAUSE..... atheism is not a world view. It's the answer to whether or not you believe in a god. The reason for that comes from our various world views.

Here's a video that applies. This is discussing whether or not evolution counts as a religion. Frankly, people who are trying to say atheism is a religion often conflate atheism with evolution. Those things are NOT identical any more than humanism and atheism. But the arguments in the video below apply just as well to this tedious talk about trying to label atheism a religion.



This is the definition of provincial.

I have religion, and so does everyone else! No matter what! Because how could somebody be different than me?! Where I'm from and the ideas I grew up with are how everywhere and everyone is!

Just because you can't let it go doesn't mean that others haven't already done that.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Re: Here is why Strong Atheism is a religion

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Robert wrote:If you believe that the universe exists and is governed by laws of physics that can be discovered by evidence and logic, you hold to the faith of atheism.
I'm pretty sure there are theists who believe this exact thing. You have to add something to make a substantive distinction. If you add the assumption that there is no external influence or creator of the governing laws, then you're taking the stance of a philosophical naturalist. As soon as you add anything to atheism, it becomes something else. Something where atheism is a component, sure. But A doesn't equal B, even if B is a component of A.
ant wrote:But rocks do not believe in God
Therefore rocks are atheists, minus the uncharitableness we grant strong atheism.
That wasn't what the author meant. He meant, a belief requires a believer. A rock isn't a believer.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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Re: Here is why Strong Atheism is a religion

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On the subject of strong atheism being a religion...

One can be a strong atheist with regards to a specific god but not to any and all god concepts. I'm a strong atheist with regards to the Christian God just because I don't accept that a god can be all-knowing, all-powerful and all-good while there is so much pain and suffering in this world. To me the Christian God is a contradiction in terms and therefore an impossibility.

I'm not, however, a strong atheist with regards to any and all god concepts. How could I know with certainty all that exists in the universe?
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Re: Here is why Strong Atheism is a religion

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If you believe that the universe exists and is governed by laws of physics that can be discovered by evidence and logic, you hold to the faith of atheism.
Yes, atheism does indeed require faith.
Thanks for adding that tidbit of honesty, Robert.

Also, we could push this back further and ask, "what is it that breathes fire into the laws of physics?"

My point in saying that is not to argue for the existence of a God or start an infinite regress, but to show that it's presumptuous to conclude physics is just physics that somehow was there always or at some time began.
That's a lot of gaps you're filling with "faith in atheism"
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