• In total there are 44 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 44 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 789 on Tue Mar 19, 2024 5:08 am

gotta love apologetics :)

Engage in conversations about worldwide religions, cults, philosophy, atheism, freethought, critical thinking, and skepticism in this forum.
Forum rules
Do not promote books in this forum. Instead, promote your books in either Authors: Tell us about your FICTION book! or Authors: Tell us about your NON-FICTION book!.

All other Community Rules apply in this and all other forums.
youkrst

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
One with Books
Posts: 2752
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:30 am
13
Has thanked: 2280 times
Been thanked: 727 times

gotta love apologetics :)

Unread post

:-D

i was reading around and came across this paragraph
How Did We Get the New Testament?
by A.P. Staff

More than 1,900 years ago, God inspired the writers of the New Testament to pen their books and letters. The actual letters and books written by these men were known as “autographs.” Unfortunately, we do not have any of the original autographs that these men wrote. Why didn’t God preserve these original documents so that we could see them and possibly touch them? We cannot be sure. Maybe He knew that some people might value the actual piece of papyrus and not the words and ideas written on it. For whatever reasons, God did not preserve the original documents that the New Testament writers produced. So, the question arises: “How do we know that the New Testament we read in the 21stcentury is the same one that God inspired over 1,900 years ago?”
:lol:
youkrst

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
One with Books
Posts: 2752
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:30 am
13
Has thanked: 2280 times
Been thanked: 727 times

Re: gotta love apologetics :)

Unread post

one of the sites Flann linked to

http://www.bede.org.uk/jesusmyth.htm

apologetics right?
The thesis that Jesus never existed has hovered around the fringes of research into the New Testament for centuries
"hovered around the fringes"?!?! :roll:
but never been able to become an accepted theory.
i learnt and continue to learn about it from very knowledgeable folk who accept the obvious.
This is for good reason, as it is simply a bad hypothesis based on arguments from silence, special pleading and an awful lot of wishful thinking.
special pleading and an awful lot of wishful thinking! sounds more like orthodox christianity to me.
It is ironic that atheists will buy into this idea and leave all their pretensions of critical thinking behind.
so we're like three sentences in and this writing is loaded.

so

then we get this little gem
Jesus made a very small splash while he was alive and there was no reason for Roman historians to notice him.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

over the last few days i have watched a lot of vids of atheists and a lot of vids of christians.

i find only one possible conclusion.

reason favours the atheists.

can anyone direct me to a vid of an orthodox believer who actually wins an argument?
User avatar
DB Roy
Beyond Awesome
Posts: 1011
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:37 am
9
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 602 times

Re: gotta love apologetics :)

Unread post

youkrst wrote::-D

i was reading around and came across this paragraph
How Did We Get the New Testament?
by A.P. Staff

More than 1,900 years ago, God inspired the writers of the New Testament to pen their books and letters.
Of course! God had an intense interest in our affairs 1900 years ago! First he created Adam&Eve but they ate the apple he told them not to eat even though he could have prevented it just by not growing that particular tree in their garden and then drawing their attention to it. So he had them procreate but then Cain killed Abel. So he lets the human race proliferate until he can't stand it anymore (can't blame him there) and decides to destroy them in a flood. But that doesn't work because he sabotaged his own efforts by having a guy build a boat to survive the flood. Then this people, his chosen, distant descendants of the guy in the boat, are taken captive in Egypt by people who must have also been distant descendants of the guy in the boat. You would think he just wouldn't have let that happen but I guess they deserved it for being stiff-necked. Then he helps them escape into a big desert that they wander around in for 40 years. Then they settle down and he helps them to commit genocide on a massive scale. But the Jews keep doing utterly insane, unforgivable shit like worshiping golden calves and race-mixing and rejecting the words of his prophets so new he sends down his son to straighten their asses out. And the Jews kill him. But that's okay! God wanted them to kill him otherwise he couldn't raise him from the dead as proof that he forgave the human race of its sins. So there you have it in a nutshell. Now what part of that don't you understand??
The actual letters and books written by these men were known as “autographs.” Unfortunately, we do not have any of the original autographs that these men wrote.
I'm presuming he meant the uncial manuscripts. Written in all capped Greek with no punctuation or spaces between the words.
Why didn’t God preserve these original documents so that we could see them and possibly touch them? We cannot be sure. Maybe He knew that some people might value the actual piece of papyrus and not the words and ideas written on it.


Yeah anytime I buy a book, I care more about the paper than the written content. Doesn't everybody? Heck, I can't even read something online without becoming more interested in my monitor than the words on the screen.

For whatever reasons, God did not preserve the original documents that the New Testament writers produced. So, the question arises: “How do we know that the New Testament we read in the 21stcentury is the same one that God inspired over 1,900 years ago?”
Well because when you're converting all caps with no spaces to mixed upper and lower case with punctuation and spaces, what could possibly get misconstrued?
User avatar
DB Roy
Beyond Awesome
Posts: 1011
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:37 am
9
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 602 times

Re: gotta love apologetics :)

Unread post

This one will give you a laugh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLK9NSUX_fs
youkrst

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
One with Books
Posts: 2752
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:30 am
13
Has thanked: 2280 times
Been thanked: 727 times

Re: gotta love apologetics :)

Unread post

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

i have been out of the apologetic loop

i had no idea about the presuppositional apologetics full retard thing

if anyone missed it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68c_Ojy66Lk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixpfitxswNk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNbNVheSKMM
User avatar
DB Roy
Beyond Awesome
Posts: 1011
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:37 am
9
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 602 times

Re: gotta love apologetics :)

Unread post

This presuppositional thing is utterly retarded. It refutes itself. It came about because atheists effortlessly dismantle all other pro-god arguments simply by pointing out where god's existence is presupposed in the premise of the argument. This became such an embarrassment that certain Christians resorted saying that they are allowed to presuppose god's existence.

They forsake evidence and even consider using evidence to try to prove the bible is right in anti-biblical. They believe their worldview is coherent and logic and rationality only comes from the biblical worldview and no other. And they resort to the ever-annoying, "How do you know anything that is outside your own mind?" Well, I can't know it perfectly--whatever that is--but that doesn't mean that what I do know about it is wrong. This will be followed up with the brilliant, "How do you know this?" And no matter what you answer, it will receive another, "How do you know this?" until you give up in exasperation. They have made such an enemy of evidence that appealing to it won't do you any good. They simply don't accept it. What they accept are presuppositions and, even then, only the ones they approve of. You're not allowed to use your own or they accuse you of stacking the deck.

How do they reject evidence? A number of ways but it always centers around believing their own assumptions are true. But what kind of world would we be living in if we reject evidence and only accept our own assumptions? We'd never accomplish anything. Suppose those guys who thought they invented cold fusion decided that the evidence to the contrary didn't matter. Their assumption that what they did was true is all that mattered. Further suppose that the whole scientific community agreed. Well, we'd all be believing that we achieved cold fusion despite the overwhelming evidence that we didn't, despite the fact that we can't achieve anything with the faulty experiment they used. We'd be spending huge amounts of money building machines and weapons based on cold fusion that would never work but since we already assumed cold fusion was achieved then that means we can't believe the evidence that these new cold fusion devices we built don't really work so the conclusion is that they do work even if we can't make them work. God revealed that to us. The Christian faith turned into a rampaging ogre.

No college that resorts to teaching presuppositionalism should ever be accredited. No one who graduates from there with a scientific degree should be hired under any circumstances. Why are we allowing this asshole lunatic fringe to have any place in our public discourse? They are dangerous--stupid and dangerous--and that is the worst combination of stupid there is. And I hope that you don't have to ask how I know that!
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6499
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2719 times
Been thanked: 2661 times
Contact:
Australia

Re: gotta love apologetics :)

Unread post

youkrst wrote::-D
Why didn’t God preserve these original documents so that we could see them and possibly touch them?
:lol:

Because the original documents from the early church contained a completely different message from the Gospels that have come down to us in expurgated bowdlerised orwellified propaganda fraudulent corrupt political form.

The 'autographs' of Jesus of Nazareth were about Jesus the Netser, meaning the branch of Jesse, as Isaiah 11:1 puts it. The Jesus story evolved, both linguistically and politically, from the Gnostic Nazirite image of the Logos as the fruit of the vine with roots in the transcendental imagination of the prophetic tradition of Israel and its links to other mythological and astronomical traditions.

Jesus was originally a myth in the autographs of the Gospels, as He largely remains in the early epistles. This mythic Gnostic framework was systematically expunged as heresy in order for the historicist Big Lie to gain traction in the corrupt expansion of the church as a political institution aimed at stabilising Christendom through common belief. They bumbled the job just enough for the fugitive traces of the mythology to still be visible in a way that can be forensically and coherently reconstructed.

How do yall like them apologetics? Would I pass at Bible College? Am I rationalising earnestly enough? :bow: :no: :up: :slap:
youkrst

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
One with Books
Posts: 2752
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:30 am
13
Has thanked: 2280 times
Been thanked: 727 times

Re: gotta love apologetics :)

Unread post

you should know you're in trouble when even your fellow christians see through your "apologetic". :-D

the holy spirit has inspired your fellow believers to refute the holy spirit inspired wisdom He gave you :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omdkrD5WB4k
youkrst

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
One with Books
Posts: 2752
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:30 am
13
Has thanked: 2280 times
Been thanked: 727 times

Re: gotta love apologetics :)

Unread post

never play poker with a presupp apologist :lol:

great stuff from autopsy87

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUQH5sCNyJg
User avatar
DB Roy
Beyond Awesome
Posts: 1011
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:37 am
9
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 602 times

Re: gotta love apologetics :)

Unread post

Presup is the quintessential "baffle 'em with bullshit" argument.
Post Reply

Return to “Religion & Philosophy”