Go Set a Watchman - Part III (Chapters 6, 7, 8,9 and 10)

Please use this thread to discuss Go Set a Watchman - Part III (Chapters 6, 7, 8,9 and 10).

I am enjoying the descriptions of the formalities of church services and know the hymns mentioned by heart. There is great comfort in their repetition . I belonged to the Anglican Church but have attended Methodist services many times and remember the doxology.

In our village the Methodists share our 12th century church, since the Methodist Chapel didn't have enough congregation to keep it going. The church is Anglican and therefore quite formal. It would, of course, once have been Roman Catholic, but at the Reformation we protestants claimed it. The Roman Catholics have a new modern church close by. It is like a sinagogue inside. I really like it, although I have only been to funerals there. I used to get along famously with the old catholic priest - Father Holleran. We used to try Christian Unity but he would never come and preach in our church until they bribed him with a bottle of Irish Whiskey!!

The wonderful - game of 'Revival' with the Baptism.

Taylor - If you read the scene again where Atticus sheds tears at the dinner table when the famous evangelical preacher is at dinner and decrying the antics of the children which he witnessed, you will see that Atticus left the table and went into the kitchen, when Scout asked the cook if Atticus was OK, she told Scout that they were tears of stifled laughter.

I agree with you absolutely, the childhood games are some of the best pieces of writing I have encountered...pure joy. And as LisaRose observed at the beginning of our discussions - 'you feel as though you are actually there'.

I grew up on the Lancashire Moors (rather like Bronte Country - Kathie and Heathcliff) from the age of 5 until I was 17, so very formative. The only other children lived in farms and cottages dotted around. I was an only child and so my play-fellows were boys as most of the time there were no girls of my age. Unlike Scout, I was not a tomboy. I was a very girly girl and so they would not always suffer my company (a bit like Violet Elizabeth in the 'Just William' books). But those games of play-acting as described by Harper Lee - just took me right back to things I had forgotten. We used to do imaginary games whereby one person would say, 'You say this', and 'you do that'......a bit of Noel Coward stage directing really.

Fortunately, the wind never dropped when we used to lean over the stone quarry chasm letting the wind hold us up. Or when we used to hurtle over the dry grass in summer - sledging on our blackboards. We just didn't know the danger we were in.....some divine providence must have protected us.

Penelope:
when Scout asked the cook if Atticus was OK, she told Scout that they were tears of stifled laughter.

I read it as Calpurnia, scolding Scout more or less by a type of mockery, As in your pappy is just fine he's on the back porch just having a high old time. No I think Atticus was genuinely disconcerted.

Heathcliff is one hell of a character, Wuthering Heights, another good story.

That is so interesting isn't it. I have endowed Atticus with a sense of humour and you have perceived him differently. It just proves how differently we interpret people in real life as well as in book characters.

Now, Heathcliff could only be placed on the wild Yorkshire moors for his fearful character to develop . The old servant describes him as very fleysome (I'm spelling that phonetically) as it is a Yorkshire dialect word meaning frightening. My old mother-in-law used to sit under the stairs in a thunderstorm because she said 'It were verra fleysome'. You can imagine my delight at discovering Emily Bronte's use of the word in her famous book.

I agree that Atticus has a sense of humor towards his children's antic's, I also see him as a single parent who is prone to indulge them as well, Calpurnia, has been with the family for many years, I see her as the surrogate matriarch charged with a measure of responsibility toward the discipline of the children. Under normal circumstance Atticus may well have gotten a kick from the baptism, and perhaps at some point in retrospect he did, but Harper Lee doesn't imply beyond what she wrote of the incidence. Calpurnia, is as much a nanny as cook, house keeper, guardian, Calpurnia is an educated woman with a family of her own, hers is the duality in this story, the baptism scene is telling because of the ambiguity of Calpurnia's answer to Scout.

Taylor wrote:I agree that Atticus has a sense of humor towards his children's antic's, I also see him as a single parent who is prone to indulge them as well, Calpurnia, has been with the family for many years, I see her as the surrogate matriarch charged with a measure of responsibility toward the discipline of the children. Under normal circumstance Atticus may well have gotten a kick from the baptism, and perhaps at some point in retrospect he did, but Harper Lee doesn't imply beyond what she wrote of the incidence. Calpurnia, is as much a nanny as cook, house keeper, guardian, Calpurnia is an educated woman with a family of her own, hers is the duality in this story, the baptism scene is telling because of the ambiguity of Calpurnia's answer to Scout.

Interesting thoughts Taylor. I think Lee is giving a very good depiction of the complexity and layers of relationships. There's the relationships of boss and employed servant. Of race and relationships based on societal structures and constraints.
But it's not simple. Are they tears of sadness or laughter?
Earlier when Jean describes Atticus calmly correcting Alexandra's claims to Finch superiority she thinks she detects a glint of profanity in his eyes or is it the light reflecting of his glasses? She never knew.There's an insecurity about what is real even in her Dad's behaviour.Then there's tears and glasses.
Calpurnia a black hired surrogate Mom and servant is in a certain relationship to people partly imposed and partly based on how she finds people.
She has "company manners." She acts in one way towards Atticus and the children and another towards "company"
She becomes haughty in manner and when Jean asks her if her Dad is really upset,she doesn't just answer her privately but relishes announcing to the Rev Moorhead and his dour wife. "Mr Finch? Nawm.He out on the porch laughin!"
Just what they didn't want to hear,and she deliberately drops her good English to fit the stereotype expected,and that is subversive mockery by her.
And Jean is left with that gnawing uncertainty again.
Atticus kept her on even when she was old and he was doing most of the housekeeping, probably in appreciation of her role when the kids were young and she really had a heavy load, on top of her own family responsibilities.
There's ambivalence in Calpurnia. It's an unwanted extra chore to have to bathe Jean from the results of her free and easy games.
She throws down the patent leather shoes with the command; "Put em on!" but she has to do it anyway so slams down the toilet seat,sits her on it and does one more chore.
That's her paid and expected role and it's irritating at times. Jean doesn't relate negatively and calls her Cal suggesting something beyond that paid role life has thrust her into.
I think Lee is suggesting complexity here and there are societal 'norms' and roles but they need not be determinative of relationships,though they often are.

Flann that's a lot to take in.

Taylor wrote:Flann that's a lot to take in.

It's an enjoyable read Taylor, just with the comedy and great recreations of children's games and interactions.
There is some depth there,and she tries to show things as they are while realising that Jean sees these things in her own way.

Flann
Are they tears of sadness or laughter?

I can not see a state legislator, prominent town attorney, a descendant of antebellum southern aristocracy, having tears of laughter at a supper table, with the guest that were present, It would be an insult, an impropriety, Atticus as the patriarch, the mere perception of his laughter, just does not fit the narrative. Prior to dinner being announced the house residence and guest were sitting in the livingroom, the children were quit, Atticus and Reverend Moorehead made uninteresting conversation and Mrs Moorehead just stared unsmilingly at the children, There's no ambiguity there, the guest were uptight, Atticus is not holding back laughter, he maybe wishing the evening were over with, but there's proper form, etiquette, procedure, All these things that the Finch name carries, but are not reflected in Atticus's children.