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Forever 
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Post Forever
Nothing lasts forever. Is that true?



Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:11 pm
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Post Re: Forever
At 3.5 billion years, this comes close.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFSAWiTJsjc
:appl:



Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:41 pm
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Post Re: Forever
On a long enough time line 3.5 quadrillion years is nothing. I want to know if anything lasts forever.



Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:09 pm
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Post Re: Forever
read into the heat death of the universe a bit.

the time lines there are tremendously huge. not forever, i think, but real numbers anticipated to actually transpire as predicted.


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In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Have you tried that? Looking for answers?
Or have you been content to be terrified of a thing you know nothing about?

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?

Confidence being an expectation built on past experience, evidence and extrapolation to the future. Faith being an expectation held in defiance of past experience and evidence.


Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:29 pm
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Post Re: Forever
A human life will last forever. When a human life ends, her forever ends.



Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:58 pm
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Post Re: Forever
That's a beautiful answer. I can't find anything that lasts forever. Everything natural seems to terminate. It just seems to me then that anything that lasts forever is unnatural. If something is forever and can't change - it seems a monstrous tyranny. Of course, anything natural that lasted forever would blast this idea to pieces. What about energy?



Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:07 pm
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Post Re: Forever
George Harrison's beautiful response.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ebtC3ORg9fU


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Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:21 pm
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Post Re: Forever
My view is that there are three types of eternity, matching to the three subjects taught in Plato's Academy, logic, physics and ethics.

Logic: the laws of mathematics last forever, outside time. The ratio between the diameter and circumference of a circle is always equal to pi

Physics: the laws of physics last forever within time. The universe appears to be permanently consistent.

Ethics: Human values touch on enduring truths which hold unchanged forever on historical time scales.


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Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:33 pm
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Post Re: Forever
Robert Tulip wrote:
My view is that there are three types of eternity, matching to the three subjects taught in Plato's Academy, logic, physics and ethics.

Logic: the laws of mathematics last forever, outside time. The ratio between the diameter and circumference of a circle is always equal to pi

Physics: the laws of physics last forever within time. The universe appears to be permanently consistent.

Ethics: Human values touch on enduring truths which hold unchanged forever on historical time scales.



1) Where in Nature does a perfect circle exist?

2) What evidence is there to confirm that the laws of physics existed prior to the big bang (which there is evidence for to date)

3) Prior to the existence of Humans, how were "human values" eternal and what evidence to you have to confirm it?

Thanks

Ps

Please forgive my skepticism.
All my beliefs and knowledge are based STRICTLY ON EVIDENCE.
You know, like, an omnipotent intelligence could not have existed prior to the BB because there is no evidence for it.
Nothing intelligent could have existed prior to the human race because there is no evidence for it.

Etc, etc.



Last edited by ant on Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:39 pm
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Post Re: Forever
Ant makes a good argument against point number one although at first glance the answer given by Tulip is intriguing. A circle is an abstract idea. Is it naturally occurring? Going beyond this and keeping strictly to math - it's all pretty much abstract, isn't it? It's naming what we see. Classifying and explaining through numbers. With Physics, a law may be a law unless something changes. Laws are only laws until they're broken and if these are laws based on a universe that will cease then the laws cannot last forever because the conditions in which they explain will not last forever. If it's the history of what once was, this too can be lost.

Ethics. Truth. Truth is not assured of lasting forever. Truth can be lost. Knowledge can be lost forever as far as we know today. I can't speak for the future.



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Post Re: Forever
ant wrote:
1) Where in Nature does a perfect circle exist?


Andy Resnick suggests

Quote:
A soap bubble (or any liquid drop) on board the space station is, for all practical purposes, a perfect sphere.

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=424387


close

Robert Tulip wrote:
The ratio between the diameter and circumference of a circle is always equal to pi


mmmmmmm awesome!


Dr Lots-o'watts adds

Quote:
Here is something inspiring :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzahpSqGbVg

But basically, because of Heisenberg's principle, a length cannot be perfectly defined, so neither can a radius. It just comes down to how small we wish the error on the circle radius DeltaR to be.



mind over matter



Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:55 pm
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Post Re: Forever
The liquid drops aren't static. There's motion which distorts the sphere. It may be a be perfect sphere by chance at one point. But if this is the case then statistically perfect spheres in nature do occur but are extremely improbable... that's if it's possible for a water droplet to be a perfect sphere without any type of distortion down to the atomic level but that's well beyond my extremely limited knowledge of physics.

I didn't know we were using the space station to observe water droplets. Money well spent! Lol



Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:10 pm
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Post Re: Forever
President Camacho wrote:
The liquid drops aren't static. There's motion which distorts the sphere. It may be a be perfect sphere by chance at one point. But if this is the case then statistically perfect spheres in nature do occur but are extremely improbable... that's if it's possible for a water droplet to be a perfect sphere without any type of distortion down to the atomic level but that's well beyond my extremely limited knowledge of physics.

I didn't know we were using the space station to observe water droplets. Money well spent! Lol


Those are some good points you make.


As a side note: I seriously doubt Plato's Realm of Perfect Forms exists on the space station.
That was a nice try by Yahweh's step child though.



Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:59 am
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Post Re: Forever
Quote:
Mr Tulip said Physics: the laws of physics last forever within time. The universe appears to be permanently consistent.

Quote:
President Camancho said With Physics, a law may be a law unless something changes. Laws are only laws until they're broken and if these are laws based on a universe that will cease then the laws cannot last forever because the conditions in which they explain will not last forever.

The universe is expanding at an accelerating rate. It will never contract for another big bang. As it approaches maximum entropy, the universe will eventually consist of an infinite field of subatomic particles barely quivering at near absolute zero temperature. This universe will indeed last forever!

:drunk: :bananadance2: :punk:
:congrats4:



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Post Re: Forever
My view is that eventually, after several trillions to the power of trillions of years, after each galaxy has long coalesced into a single black hole, the force of gravity will reverse the accelerating expansion, and galaxies will then slow and stop and reverse their separation, forming tricklets and brooks and creeks and rivers of black holes rushing back together, until all the matter of the universe falls back together into a single oceanic black hole, which will then eventually destabilise for the entire process to begin again.


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