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End Times 
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Post Re: End Times
PJPross wrote:
This is why I wrote "you don't understand and you're not ready." And that's fine. It's not about meeting "my" criteria. It's not about "my" judgement. "Truth" is not about personal conjectures (it's not subjective). When I mention "truth" you are thinking from a worldly perspective which has NOTHING to do with "truth." The world is NOT what it appears to be. Self-realized, enlightened truth is discovered intuitively and surpasses the five-senses. You can't "reason" your way to truth. You haven't discovered it. It has NOTHING to do with superstition, absurdity, or illogicality. In fact, "spiritual-truth/self-realization" is very scientific. However, instead of being a "material scientist" one becomes a "spiritual scientist." There's no emotional dogma or irrationality. "Truths" are proven to oneself. I'm not going to go back-and-forth with you about something you have absolutely no understanding of when there are those who do comprehend and would benefit more. They are the ones who need my time more. It's much like a classroom. Those who disrupt the class are not there for learning. It's best to put them out-of-the-class so that the teacher can dedicate their time to those who are "awake" and want to learn. When the "student" decides they are "ready to learn" they are welcomed back in the classroom. A student doesn't come to class to teach the teacher and you are not conceiving my words. That's OK...It's not a problem for me but I have no more time for your post. They're irrelevant for my purpose. I won't be replying again. Good Bye


Those are a whole lot of words to say you can't prove any of your points. You can couch it as you being enlightened and me being asleep in the third grade but anything that can't be judged logicially, or mathematically, or physically can't be proven.

You have proved something purely subjective to yourself — and a bunch of other "awake' people may agree with you, but it means about the same as those people who convinced themselves Trump was telling the truth when he said Mexico would pay for the wall. Anyone with even a basic grasp of Mexico's economy knows Mexico couldn't pay for the wall simply because they don't have the money. But once you rule out logic and math as you have, you can believe Mexico will pay, or anything else you like, because you are now hanging out with Alice and the Red Queen:
"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

And every good teacher will tell you they learn quite a bit from their students. The students may not go in thinking they'll teach the teacher but it happens every day in every school nonetheless.


We are losing it. There are bright neon signs advertising psychic palm and Tarot card readers in every town I drive through. Newspapers print horoscopes everyday. People don't believe in climate change or evolution but do believe the Bible is the literal word of God with a capitol "G." We are wrecking the environment to the point we have no real concept of the planet our grandchildren will inherit — then we elect lawmakers who have repealed a score or more environmental protection statutes and a President who wants to prop up the coal industry.

Enough. The best thing the surviving students from Parkland did was call BS. It was a child who said the emperor was nekked and kids may only have themselves to rely on if they want a future. Any future. The time is past to start calling bullshit when you see bullshit and I see bullshit from sea to shining sea.


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Post Re: End Times
Litwitlou wrote:
PJPross wrote:
This is why I wrote "you don't understand and you're not ready." And that's fine. It's not about meeting "my" criteria. It's not about "my" judgement. "Truth" is not about personal conjectures (it's not subjective). When I mention "truth" you are thinking from a worldly perspective which has NOTHING to do with "truth." The world is NOT what it appears to be. Self-realized, enlightened truth is discovered intuitively and surpasses the five-senses. You can't "reason" your way to truth. You haven't discovered it. It has NOTHING to do with superstition, absurdity, or illogicality. In fact, "spiritual-truth/self-realization" is very scientific. However, instead of being a "material scientist" one becomes a "spiritual scientist." There's no emotional dogma or irrationality. "Truths" are proven to oneself. I'm not going to go back-and-forth with you about something you have absolutely no understanding of when there are those who do comprehend and would benefit more. They are the ones who need my time more. It's much like a classroom. Those who disrupt the class are not there for learning. It's best to put them out-of-the-class so that the teacher can dedicate their time to those who are "awake" and want to learn. When the "student" decides they are "ready to learn" they are welcomed back in the classroom. A student doesn't come to class to teach the teacher and you are not conceiving my words. That's OK...It's not a problem for me but I have no more time for your post. They're irrelevant for my purpose. I won't be replying again. Good Bye


Those are a whole lot of words to say you can't prove any of your points. You can couch it as you being enlightened and me being asleep in the third grade but anything that can't be judged logicially, or mathematically, or physically can't be proven.

You have proved something purely subjective to yourself — and a bunch of other "awake' people may agree with you, but it means about the same as those people who convinced themselves Trump was telling the truth when he said Mexico would pay for the wall. Anyone with even a basic grasp of Mexico's economy knows Mexico couldn't pay for the wall simply because they don't have the money. But once you rule out logic and math as you have, you can believe Mexico will pay, or anything else you like, because you are now hanging out with Alice and the Red Queen:
"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

And every good teacher will tell you they learn quite a bit from their students. The students may not go in thinking they'll teach the teacher but it happens every day in every school nonetheless.


We are losing it. There are bright neon signs advertising psychic palm and Tarot card readers in every town I drive through. Newspapers print horoscopes everyday. People don't believe in climate change or evolution but do believe the Bible is the literal word of God with a capitol "G." We are wrecking the environment to the point we have no real concept of the planet our grandchildren will inherit — then we elect lawmakers who have repealed a score or more environmental protection statutes and a President who wants to prop up the coal industry.

Enough. The best thing the surviving students from Parkland did was call BS. It was a child who said the emperor was nekked and kids may only have themselves to rely on if they want a future. Any future. The time is past to start calling bullshit when you see bullshit and I see bullshit from sea to shining sea.
You are so TOTALLY and COMPLETELY waaaay off from what I'm communicating I just had to respond as I genuinely felt sorry for you. Don't try to impress me, it's not necessary and totally ineffective. I mean you are completely OFF!!! But that's OK it's to be expected. You have every right to be "delusional" but I'm not going to join you! Not everyone has the strength nor insight to comprehend "truth" or obtain "self-realization." Nonetheless, I admire those who do and there are many great ones that I continue to learn from as well. I recognize honor, truth, and one who is on the path to or who have obtained "self-realization." These are the people I admire. Keep in mind, spiritually aware individuals keep up with world affairs too! We're not dimwits who don't take care of our "earthly" responsibilities like paying bills! LOL If you're trying to astound me, sorry, but you've failed. I don't mean that in a harsh way but there's no need for you to continue to respond to me as my words are not benefiting you and I care not for what you think. "Self-realization" is an "inner journey" that many would rather not travel (it's the most difficult but most rewarding path one can take) and the only true path to "freedom" from earth's "illusion." The more intelligent one becomes the better one understands this principle. The greatest minds i.e. Einstein (as someone else mentioned on this thread understood this). However, unfortunately I have to give you the same response I gave to the other poster "I have no more time for your post. They are irrelevant for my purpose. In fact, I won't respond to anymore nonsensical post written purely for entertainment purposes rather than a sincere desire to "truly discern." . Good Bye and Good Luck...!



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Post Re: End Times
ant wrote:
We all know you admire secular saints like Buffet, Gates, and Carrier. And I'm willing to bet you're pretty darn good at balancing your checkbook.

But, still..., I'll gladly appeal to an intellectual authority like Einstein in this case.


You're right here ant, and knowledge can often lead to depression. Ignorance can be bliss, as long as you have a modicum of wisdom to go with it. Wisdom for living life and knowing how the universe works are different things. You can have one and not the other. Some rare people have both.

When I see words like "Truth" thrown around in quotes and capital letters, I'm attacking the knowledge aspect of the claim. I think PJPross has a working philosophy of self-knowledge and wisdom, and it's bleeding over the borders by poor word choices. Or perhaps it's intentional, in that he believes inner knowledge somehow dictates how the universe outside oneself works. I call shenanigans on that.

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Yeah, but, you know, it's the deepest truths we arrive at by intuition that intellects like Einstein (in quotes below) spoke about.


The where did Einstein say the deepest truths are arrived at by intuition?

But still, intuition can lead to truths. But only a fool stops there, rather than taking his intuition and testing it against reality. Intuition is the creative force that leads us to create hypotheses. But those hypotheses are NOT "Truth that proves itself". They still must be tested.

I'm a fan of the sort of intuitive thin-slicing(Malcolm Gladwell) that is not followed by testing. Split-second decision making in military or business situations that allow for no time to analyze in depth. That's all intuition, and it's great, but even then I don't think that's what PJPross is getting at.


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Post Re: End Times
Interbane wrote:
ant wrote:
When I see words like "Truth" thrown around in quotes and capital letters, I'm attacking the knowledge aspect of the claim. I think PJPross has a working philosophy of self-knowledge and wisdom, and it's bleeding over the borders by poor word choices. Or perhaps it's intentional, in that he believes inner knowledge somehow dictates how the universe outside oneself works. I call shenanigans on that. .
LOL...Excuse me but I don't need you to explain "me." I know EXACTLY what I mean when I use the word "TRUTH"... YOU DON'T...! It's like giving someone a recipe for apple pie and they try to claim you don't need apples to make apple pie you can use cucumbers! It's totally ludicrous. That's the effect of your statement concerning my words. However, you have every right to your opinion that's for sure. Let's leave it at that and call it a day my friend....Good Bye



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Post Re: End Times
PJPross wrote:
I won't be replying again. Good Bye


PJPross wrote:
You are so TOTALLY and COMPLETELY waaaay off from what I'm communicating I just had to respond as I genuinely felt sorry for you. Don't try to impress me, it's not necessary and totally ineffective. I mean you are completely OFF!!! But that's OK it's to be expected. You have every right to be "delusional" but I'm not going to join you! Not everyone has the strength nor insight to comprehend "truth" or obtain "self-realization." Nonetheless, I admire those who do and there are many great ones that I continue to learn from as well. I recognize honor, truth, and one who is on the path to or who have obtained "self-realization." These are the people I admire. Keep in mind, spiritually aware individuals keep up with world affairs too! We're not dimwits who don't take care of our "earthly" responsibilities like paying bills! LOL If you're trying to astound me, sorry, but you've failed. I don't mean that in a harsh way but there's no need for you to continue to respond to me as my words are not benefiting you and I care not for what you think. "Self-realization" is an "inner journey" that many would rather not travel (it's the most difficult but most rewarding path one can take) and the only true path to "freedom" from earth's "illusion." The more intelligent one becomes the better one understands this principle. The greatest minds i.e. Einstein (as someone else mentioned on this thread understood this). However, unfortunately I have to give you the same response I gave to the other poster "I have no more time for your post. They are irrelevant for my purpose. In fact, I won't respond to anymore nonsensical post written purely for entertainment purposes rather than a sincere desire to "truly discern." . Good Bye and Good Luck...!


My God, you're wordy. The bold and the caps and the triple punctuation marks make me think you're very young. The ad hominem attacks don't help your case either.

"I won't be replying again" I'm communicating" "I just had to respond" "I genuinely felt sorry for you" "Don't try to impress me" "I'm not going to join you!" "I admire those" "I continue to learn" "If you're trying to astound me" "I have to give you the same response I gave to the other poster" "I have no more time" "I won't respond to anymore nonsensical post"

Everything's still all about you. LOL. You have to be fresh out of high school. Always remember, Grasshopper, “Those who know do not speak. Those who speak do not know.” ― Lao Tzu


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Post Re: End Times
PJPross wrote:
LOL...Excuse me but I don't need you to explain "me." I know EXACTLY what I mean when I use the word "TRUTH"... YOU DON'T...!


I believe you completely here. When you use the word "TRUTH", you know exactly what you mean. It appears your definition of "truth" is "my opinion I believe with certainty". You aren't stating anything true about the outside world, only your inner self. That's fine, and I respect that. But your "truth" doesn't overrule what we know of how the universe works. Your enlightenment is not greater than the greatest minds of the last 4 centuries in figuring out how the world works.

If you pose your ideas as self-help, that's great and I wish you luck. But posing them as an all-encompassing understanding of the universe is uneducated nonsense and the pinnacle of arrogance.


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Post Re: End Times
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Interbane wrote:

Intuition is the creative force that leads us to create hypotheses.


Creative force? You've been watching too many Star Wars movies.

On a more serious note, what is the source of intuition, in your opinion?Or, what exactly is it? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on it.

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Post Re: End Times
It's unconscious reasoning, as opposed to conscious reasoning. I like Daniel Dennet's phrase the most, and it's how I've come to think of the deeper workings of the mind. He calls it the "hidden layer". Not anything superstitious or spooky. It's just that so much happens in our brains that happens without us realizing it(unconsciously). Our passive introspection isn't all-encompassing. We don't have a god's eye view of what happens in our brains. We make connections all the time without realizing it, both awake and while dreaming. We can sit on a problem for a week or so, and all at once the answer pops into our heads. Or it can be immediate. I remember being asked a super difficult math question in the Air Force, and the answer popped into my head without the need for conscious thought. I'm not that great at math, and that only happened once. The processing still happened, but I wasn't aware of it.

There's some interesting reading that translates over to the hidden layer of the mind in ANN's - artificial neural networks. Although artificial, they achieve similar results in connecting concepts as the human brain does. Nowhere near to the same extent, of course, and the methods are mathematical rather than our neural heuristics. This book is on my shelf waiting to be read:

https://www.amazon.com/Make-Your-Neural ... bs_3896_16


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Post Re: End Times
That looks like a great book.



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Post Re: End Times
PJPross wrote:
Harry Marks wrote:
All those hundreds of millions of planets circling other stars exist for the purpose of selling the book. That's easy.
:excuseme: My book isn't written on a secular level and is ONLY for those who are truly searching for answers in earnest. I'd rather individuals NOT to purchase my book if they're not sincere about reading its contents. I prefer those who are genuinely seeking or already knowledgeable and enjoy reading various books on the topic. There are many others like me who "understand." I'm straightforward. There's no chicanery going on here. I'd rather give my books away. Oh, by the way...Happy New Year! and :chillpill:


The only real seekers are Gnostic Christians. In fact, we are perpetual seekers and refuse to idol worship whatever ideal we think we have found.

All Christian and Muslims are idol worshipers, se your list of seekers will be devoid of those.

Regards
DL



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Post Re: End Times
Interbane wrote:
PJPross wrote:
Self-realized, enlightened truth is discovered intuitively and surpasses the five-senses. You can't "reason" your way to truth.

This can be shown to be false in so many ways. Yes, you can reason your way to the truth. What other way do you suppose the truth is reached? By eating cheetos? Intuition can sometimes lead to the truth, but it often fails.

We can't engineer our way to making enlightened choices. In our emotional world, love and hate can be separated by but a thin line. Anger and remorse are linked together like conjoined twins. The enlightenment industry has grown up out of people's need for a "placebo" to deal with these dangers. Just believing you have a path to keep you balanced and your emotions under control can easily make the difference to actually make it so.

Reason may have as much to offer as mysticism in making this step out into self-fulfilling confidence. More to the point, reason will work well for some people, and intuition will work well for other people (and emotional release will work well for still other people). But only one of those paths should be thought of as a "technology." The others are habits, or a path, or something much more vague but, as likely as not, adapted to the individual deciding to follow them.
Interbane wrote:
Which means that even when you have an intuition, it must still be aligned with sound logic and evidence, ie reasoning. There's no way around this, if the "truth" is your goal. Fuzzy language won't get you closer.
In general I think this is right. I think Kahneman had a very good framework for thinking about how reason can "correct" the perceptions we jump to. Intuition is even looser than perception. In my mind it is most useful for raising the right questions. If a salesperson or a politician sets off alarm bells in my intuition I start asking myself about what seems off, where there might be some information going unaddressed, or some risks glossed over.

Intuition can create motivated reasoning, but in the realm of managing the emotions, that can be a good thing.

Interbane wrote:
Quote:
"Truths" are proven to oneself.
Sorry, no they aren't. We're terrible at discovering the truth. You, me, all of us. Truths don't prove themselves to us. We have to fight and kick and scream for every morsel, and it's often painful.
Yeah, okay, truth with a high degree of confidence is difficult to come by. In general we have to make choices in real time with imperfect information. On the other hand, nature has given us "intuitive" processes like falling in love to make that choice business go smoother.

For all of Michael Shermer's fuss about it, our tendency to overperceive tigers and other ambiguous threats is part of that natural equipment. So what we do is look closer at what seemed like it might be a tiger, or just get out of there. In many ways religion and New Age consciousness work by similar mechanisms. Going with certain kinds of intuition about life can actually make our life a lot smoother, even if it is based on faulty reasoning.

I think we need an emotional intelligence about making commitments based on partial information. We try to keep in mind that our reasoning process may be faulty, and keep in mind what we have to keep checking out to correct our path at the level of nuance. But knowing we have made a commitment has real value for fighting off anxiety and toxic stress.
PJ wrote:
It's best to put them out-of-the-class so that the teacher can dedicate their time to those who are "awake" and want to learn.
Because those are the ones whose emotions respond to that "treatment." The problem is that the mechanism seems to require them to consider everyone else to be unenlightened. Maybe there is a better version out there, in plain vanilla flavors like "anger management," which offers the method without the hype.



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Post Re: End Times
Chris OConnor wrote:
Are The Planets Just For Decoration?

The fact that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies filled with hundreds of billions of stars makes me think the planets circling those stars aren't actually "for" anything and just are. I'm sure to you a supernatural deity created the universe and put all those heavenly bodies there for a purpose. To me this would be a tremendous waste of time, space and matter. To think a god created planets 5 Billion light years away is just insane.
Chris, I have not read PJPross's book, but his comments here do not justify your assumptions. Astrology in its main western form is only based on the solar system, with the positions of the visible background stars only serving as markers for the solstices and equinoxes. The popular myth that astrology assumes influence from the stars is just wrong, except for Indian astrology. So it is most unlikely that PJPross would be making any assertions about other galaxies as you assume. He also has said nothing about a supernatural deity, so I don't see why you are sure about his views on that.


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Post Re: End Times
ant wrote:
Quote:
Interbane wrote:
Intuition is the creative force that leads us to create hypotheses.

Creative force? You've been watching too many Star Wars movies.

On a more serious note, what is the source of intuition, in your opinion?Or, what exactly is it? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on it.

Excuse my barging in, but I have some views on intuition. I think of it as the "feeling" that tells me "where" progress can be made. I first remember it from doing mathematical proofs, actually. Sometimes I would just have a feeling that a certain approach would get closer to making a match between the requirements and the available material. It didn't always work - sometimes there would turn out to be a glitch that couldn't be gotten around. But often the match was really there, and a few more steps in that direction would show what I only "sensed" before.

What is that sensing? The human mind is a pattern recognizer. We are the only animal with genuine language, and (I am told) the only animal who, in very early childhood, spontaneously imitates the sounds and sequences that older humans make. Those are obviously linked. Adults can't reward saying "Want some" if the baby doesn't try it, probably because the adult says "want some?"

We can infer that the brain must be capable of assembling a large number of possible templates, sequences or other arrangements of inputs, which can be compared to an abstract template. The ones which are not close never get assembled, and the ones that are close are then compared carefully to reject "wrong" proposals. But these proposals arise spontaneously from rough approximations to the abstract version. Intuition happens (I believe) when you don't know exactly what abstraction you are "comparing" to, but some pattern is waiting in your subconscious because of associations that have been made only vaguely before.

As an example, suppose it's true that dogs know when a person is carrying a firearm. (I have heard this is true, and based on a sense that the person carries himself differently). The dog presumably has a strong sense that certain ways of relating signal "threat". Humans have some of the same, but often only at an intuitive level - "That guy is aggressive" "How do you know?" "You can just tell." There is some vague configuration of signs, not clear enough to rise to the level of conscious confidence, but matching our template for "aggression" based on nothing more than associations made on a somewhat random basis in the past.

Acting, I think, is largely about tapping these vague associations to produce a simulation of the emotion or interaction called for by the script. Actors are notorious for needing to "get in touch with their subconscious" in order to pull off this feat.

The same business of raising subconscious associations to the level of awareness seems to be responsible for delusional perceptions. If the person "wants" to see or hear certain things, those are more likely to be triggered by vague associations. This accounts for the frequency of people dreaming about those who recently died, and even hearing the person speak (I vaguely recall some statistic like 40 percent of people with a relatively recent death of a loved one had heard the person speak afterward). The version that happens to me is that when I move to a new city, I am much, much more likely to see someone in a crowd who seems familiar.

A lot of my reading on the subject was in Tanya Luhrmann's "When God Talks Back" and related internet searches. Luhrmann is a Stanford psychologist who has studied schizophrenia and other causes of delusions, including intense religious imagination.



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Post Re: End Times
Robert Tulip wrote:
Chris OConnor wrote:
Are The Planets Just For Decoration?

The fact that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies filled with hundreds of billions of stars makes me think the planets circling those stars aren't actually "for" anything and just are. I'm sure to you a supernatural deity created the universe and put all those heavenly bodies there for a purpose. To me this would be a tremendous waste of time, space and matter. To think a god created planets 5 Billion light years away is just insane.
Chris, I have not read PJPross's book, but his comments here do not justify your assumptions. Astrology in its main western form is only based on the solar system, with the positions of the visible background stars only serving as markers for the solstices and equinoxes. The popular myth that astrology assumes influence from the stars is just wrong, except for Indian astrology. So it is most unlikely that PJPross would be making any assertions about other galaxies as you assume. He also has said nothing about a supernatural deity, so I don't see why you are sure about his views on that.

I shouldn't try to speak for him, but I'm guessing that if you subtract the trillions of bodies in space and just consider the nine closest to us, Chris wouldn't change his mind about what they're for, or what they do, as far as influencing creatures of bones and blood on earth. Astrology today is probably a manifestation of humans' need for explanations that transcend scientific reason.



Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:40 am
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Post Re: End Times
.
.
The first law of thermodynamics doesn't actually specify that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but instead that the total amount of energy in a closed system cannot be created nor destroyed (though it can be changed from one form to another).

1 PROPERTIES OF MATTER LAW OF CONSERVATION OF MATTER Matter cannot be created nor destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another. Matter and energy are interchangeable according to E=mc 2 (E=amount of energy, m = amount of matter, c= a constant equal to the velocity of light)
physicscentral.com/experiment/askaphysi ... 0221015143

This I can deal with until I ask why matter and energy exist at all. Apparently matter exists because there is no such thing as empty space. Then I get dragged into quantum physics where the speed of light is no longer a constant and a thing can exist in two places at the same time. And we then get to dark matter and dark energy. I think they are just now beginning to grasp just a little bit of the physics of the dark stuff.

So I have to try and wrap my feeble mind around all that and you want to add astrology? Ack!


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