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Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump 
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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
KS wrote:
Yes, there was locker room talk about sex, but at least Trump...


Of course, and most of us are familiar with the sort of person who says these things in locker rooms. We all know a pervert or two from high school and college, right? These are the types of people that actually go out and do perverted things. Just like the women have accused Trump of doing.

Calling attention to the potential crimes of others(like Bill Clinton) does not excuse Trump. If they're guilty of being a pervert, pointing to another pervert doesn't change that.

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So for the past year we've watched the infantile media squalling about Trump because their pride got a boo boo.


The media is squalling about Trump because he's a terrible person, in so many different ways. The examples are legion.


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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
I like the statement of George Orwell: the hardest thing to see is what is right before our faces. Now please don't anyone think that I'm claiming immunity to this kind of blindness. But I can't avoid applying Orwell to the fact of Donald Trump's genuine and acute destructiveness. It isn't immediately apparent to all that our president engaging in a taunting match via twitter with a rogue nuclear power, is a siren blast telling us he's unfit for the office?



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Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:16 pm
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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
I don't understand how he can tell a bald faced lie on national television and his followers don't care. In his defense, I think he's just really dumb and doesn't know the truth in many cases. But in others, the things he lies about are thing he should know.

Just look at page 1 of politifact, out of 25 pages. http://www.politifact.com/personalities ... st=speaker

Of all his statements, 164 were listed as "false"(the largest category), and 21 were listed as "true"(the smallest category).

Thus begins the era of idiocracy.


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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
Interbane wrote:
. . . But in others, the things he lies about are thing he should know.


I have a strange theory that Trump simply can't tell the difference between fact and fiction and, therefore, isn't really lying, per se. He's simply spouting out the nonsense—a kind braggadocio—that he perceives as truth. He doesn't have the faculty for critical thinking to be able to sort out the wheat from the chaff. He always just shoots from the hip.

Michelle Goldberg, in the WSJ, says it pretty well in her review of Michael Wolff's new book, Fire and Fury.

Quote:
Wolff’s reporting shows, [Trump] has no executive function, no ability to process information or weigh consequences. Expecting him to act in the country’s interest is like demanding that your cat do the dishes. His enablers have no such excuse.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/opin ... egion&_r=0

The article is probably behind a paywall.

DWill, I have thought of Orwell many times this past year, especially when Trump last month issued a list of words that the CDC is not allowed to use. Although to be fair, it's not clear if the order came directly from Trump or if it came from one of his underlings. Even so, Trump has shown many times that he naturally leans towards totalitarianism, whether he knows what that is or not.


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Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:29 am
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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
KindaSkolarly wrote:
With luck and persistence 2018 will see the dismantling of the major human trafficking rings.

I would lay 5 to 1 odds against this event occurring. If it depended on Trump caring about the issue, the odds would be even longer.



Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:49 am
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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
geo wrote:
I have a strange theory that Trump simply can't tell the difference between fact and fiction and, therefore, isn't really lying, per se. He's simply spouting out the nonsense—a kind braggadocio—that he perceives as truth.
I don't find this strange at all. I think it is simple description. The connections that most of us have in our brain to "truth" don't function in his, and instead "truth" means "things I want other people to believe."
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Expecting him to act in the country’s interest is like demanding that your cat do the dishes.
Pretty accurate.
Quote:
His enablers have no such excuse.
But these are people who made the choice to sell out their integrity years, if not decades, ago. No need for an excuse, in most cases. I make an exception for the generals, but they are fairly obviously trying to keep the ship afloat and have long experience accepting a fairly goofy chain of command. Their goal justifies their compromise.



Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:57 am
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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
I think, however, I will sit out the new Michael Wolff book that's been so all over the place. I'm not comfortable with the reputation of the author or what he said about his methods in writing the book. Even though I firmly believe that Trump in the White House is bad for the country, allegations of him being so out of control, and of dysfunction in the W.H., can create a distorted picture of the probable reality. In all likelihood, Trump is often able to conduct a meeting reasonably well and to act basically like a normal person, albeit one with a distinctive personality. It really isn't a bad idea, IMO, to adjust one's impression for a certain amount of media over-amplification.



Last edited by DWill on Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
DWill wrote:
I like the statement of George Orwell: the hardest thing to see is what is right before our faces. Now please don't anyone think that I'm claiming immunity to this kind of blindness. But I can't avoid applying Orwell to the fact of Donald Trump's genuine and acute destructiveness. It isn't immediately apparent to all that our president engaging in a taunting match via twitter with a rogue nuclear power, is a siren blast telling us he's unfit for the office?



what exactly are you talking about?
how has america turned Orwellian specifically because of a Trumpian policies?

frankly our checks and balances have been effective in several instances.


People throw around Orwell's 1984 too recklessly of late. I doubt most of the people that scream this is turning into a 1984 State have even bothered to read the book cover to cover.

if you want a somewhat more accurate comparison read A Brave New World. There are more parallels in that book to consider.

This type of liberal fear mongering is irresponsible



Last edited by ant on Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
While liberals continue to cry and lament what a horrible nightmare they are suffering, how "the Nazis have taken over" how we are now living in a true dystopia (reality does not match these dramatics) here is a ranking of the 10 worst presidents in history.

I don't know how President Harding did not rank closer to the top spot, but I encourage all you drama queens that probably have money in the bank, a nice home, a good job, and a big soft recliner to cry on to do a little research here.

Trump acts like an idiot. There's no question about that. He's unfiltered, crass, rude, and unpresidential, to say the least. Despite what your crystal balls have revealed to you, he has yet to, say, send 19 year olds to their deaths (aka Vietnam).

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/who ... tates.html

I remember a political article I read on Al Jazeera's website shortly after Trump won. The author commented about American's being "politically spoiled" and how we've developed some entitled expectation that everything must go our way politically at home and abroad, and if it doesn't we come apart at the seems.
In fact, Americans have become the softest people on the planet. Citizens of other nations live regularly with the fear of economic ruin, REAL tyrannical corruption and cruelty, border invasion, etc.

Grow up, liberal america. All the wailing this past year has become an international embarrassment in the eyes of people abroad that really are a hair away from mayhem.



Last edited by ant on Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
ant wrote:
DWill wrote:
I like the statement of George Orwell: the hardest thing to see is what is right before our faces. Now please don't anyone think that I'm claiming immunity to this kind of blindness. But I can't avoid applying Orwell to the fact of Donald Trump's genuine and acute destructiveness. It isn't immediately apparent to all that our president engaging in a taunting match via twitter with a rogue nuclear power, is a siren blast telling us he's unfit for the office?



what exactly are you talking about?
how has america turned Orwellian specifically because of a Trumpian policies?

frankly our checks and balances have been effective in several instances.


People throw around Orwell's 1984 too recklessly of late. I doubt most of the people that scream this is turning into a 1984 State have even bothered to read the book cover to cover.

if you want a somewhat more accurate comparison read A Brave New World. There are more parallels in that book to consider.

This type of liberal fear mongering is irresponsible

I don't disagree and believe there is a misunderstanding. Would that have been avoided if I had written, "can't avoid applying Orwell's statement"? Orwell's writings include a lot more than what is called Orwellian today.



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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
ant wrote:
Grow up, liberal america. All the wailing this past year has become an international embarrassment in the eyes of people abroad that really are a hair away from mayhem.


The international embarrassment we're facing is from Trump, as shown by responses from many world leaders over the last year. That's excluding those cases where the leaders are adversaries(Russia/N. Korea).

Quote:
While liberals continue to cry and lament what a horrible nightmare they are suffering, how "the Nazis have taken over" how we are now living in a true dystopia (reality does not match these dramatics) here is a ranking of the 10 worst presidents in history.


Thank god Trump isn't ranked as one of the ten worst presidents. That makes him great again.

You know it's bad when a defense of our president is to say that "at least we aren't a third world nation on the brink of total civil breakdown." Yes, we could be in a much worse position. But pointing that out isn't a good defense. We should strive for more.


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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
Trump is good for America. He's lancing the boil that the governmental cabal has become. And if he's abrasive, so what? His governing actions make such perfect sense that opponents can't effectively attack them, so they attack him personally. They say the country's doomed because of him. But we survived his Marxist Muslim predecessor. And the scion of the gangster Bush family before that. And the Factor 8 killer before that. America's not doomed, just the opposite. Lower taxes, fat trimming, prosecution of the demonic scum who've infested the halls of government for decades--these are all GOOD things. And it's about time. Rejoice.


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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
ant wrote:
While liberals continue to cry and lament what a horrible nightmare they are suffering, how "the Nazis have taken over" how we are now living in a true dystopia (reality does not match these dramatics) here is a ranking of the 10 worst presidents in history.

I don't know how President Harding did not rank closer to the top spot, but I encourage all you drama queens that probably have money in the bank, a nice home, a good job, and a big soft recliner to cry on to do a little research here.

Trump acts like an idiot. There's no question about that. He's unfiltered, crass, rude, and unpresidential, to say the least. Despite what your crystal balls have revealed to you, he has yet to, say, send 19 year olds to their deaths (aka Vietnam).

Another attack on the generalized bogeyman liberal, which get us no farther than attacks on the generalized bogeyman conservative. It's just a tribal shouting match. Where are you seeing this liberal paranoia playing out? On cable news? I never watch it, so that could be why your claim that liberals are bellyaching for selfish reasons fails to register with me. What I see in print, from commentators on the liberal and conservative sides (e.g., George F. Will, Charles Krauthammer, and Michael Gerson) are patriotic protests against the manner in which Trump is using and abusing his office. Yep, these folks complain that Trump is "unfiltered, crass, rude, and unpresidential, to say the least." Unlike you, they don't say, "Oh well, we're not under Putin-style oppression and our economy is fine, so everyone shut the hell up." This is like saying that there are not, after all, any expectations for conduct to which to hold a president, because it's all just words from him, and words don't matter.

Historians obviously haven't gotten around to rating Trump. Will has said he's already the worst in history. I don't have the background to rule on that judgment, but this president has been so egregious overall that it wouldn't surprise me if Will is right.



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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
DWill wrote:
. . . I like the statement of George Orwell: the hardest thing to see is what is right before our faces. Now please don't anyone think that I'm claiming immunity to this kind of blindness. But I can't avoid applying Orwell to the fact of Donald Trump's genuine and acute destructiveness. It isn't immediately apparent to all that our president engaging in a taunting match via twitter with a rogue nuclear power, is a siren blast telling us he's unfit for the office?


The most "Orwellian" aspect of Trump has to be his rather cavalier attitude towards the truth. And so we have the "fake news" (and now "fake books") mantra being thrown about when its convenient—but usually when the real world doesn't quite mesh with his skewed (and narcissistic) perception. For example, on the day after inauguration, Trump asserted that his inaugural crowd numbers were higher than Obama's, a claim later repeated by press secretary Sean Spicer. When various media outlets challenged this claim, Trump's team went into denial in a big way. Kellyanne Conway even claimed that Spicer was relying on “alternative facts"—a cringeworthy term that could have well been used by O'Brien, one of the Party leaders in Orwell's book, 1984.

This is just one example. Trump has made numerous claims that are simply false. During the campaign, he told many doozies, including that he never supported the war in Iraq. To be fair, it seems entirely impossible that Trump simply doesn't remember supporting the war in Iraq. But does that really matter? Again, there are hundreds of examples of distortions and inconsistencies and outright lies made by this president. It's on record, much of it on his twitter feed.

In 1984, Orwell's "newspeak" is the official language meant to limit the freedom of thought—personal identity, self-expression, free will—that ideologically threatens the regime of Big Brother and the Party. Obviously we are nowhere close to that kind of totalitarianism. And so Ant makes a good point here. But on the other hand, the fact that a large segment of our population still supports a reality TV president, who seems to not even understand the difference between fact and fiction, does illustrate how a Big Brother might come to power. I doubt it will ever happen under Trump because he is frankly not competent enough to stay in power.

Orwell's famous essay, Politics and the English Language, is probably a better indicator of our times. In this essay, Orwell describes how those in power can warp language for political gain. Many politicians are liars to some extent—they have to say the right things to be elected in the first place—and they also know how to dance around a question. Ronald Reagan famously once said "mistakes were made" instead of "oops, I messed up." But we have never seen a president so transparently disingenuous as Donald Trump. He doesn't hide what he doesn't know because he doesn't know that he doesn't know. Trump is the ultimate Dunning-Kruger president.

But we live in an increasingly transparent society and Trump's problems with the truth are glaringly obvious to most people. I don't know what will come out of the Russia investigation, but clearly the Trump administration is an absolute circus. All he would have to do is shut the hell up and most of that would stop. The fact that he doesn't, that he can't, shows how unfit he is to be president. What is incredibly scary is how many people are willing to tune out the "fake news" and the "liberal media" in exactly the same way that creationists dismiss scientific evidence because it interferes with their religious beliefs. Many wise men have said that for the American experiment to work, we need a well-informed citizenry. What happens when we exchange being well-informed for willful ignorance? We now have a good taste of what that looks like.


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Post Re: Draining the swamp - Thank you Donald Trump
Interbane wrote:
ant wrote:
Grow up, liberal america. All the wailing this past year has become an international embarrassment in the eyes of people abroad that really are a hair away from mayhem.


The international embarrassment we're facing is from Trump, as shown by responses from many world leaders over the last year. That's excluding those cases where the leaders are adversaries(Russia/N. Korea).

Quote:
While liberals continue to cry and lament what a horrible nightmare they are suffering, how "the Nazis have taken over" how we are now living in a true dystopia (reality does not match these dramatics) here is a ranking of the 10 worst presidents in history.


Thank god Trump isn't ranked as one of the ten worst presidents. That makes him great again.

You know it's bad when a defense of our president is to say that "at least we aren't a third world nation on the brink of total civil breakdown." Yes, we could be in a much worse position. But pointing that out isn't a good defense. We should strive for more.



Nothing I said was an attempt at defending this current president. It was simply a statement about how ridiculous Americans look from the perspective of the international community.

The irony of this entire soap opera our national bandwagon loves lamenting about is rich. I'm betting most of these hyperbolic drama queens munched on popcorn and other goodies while watching an episode or two of The Apprentice. America's favorite pastime has been reality tv and its celebrities with all the uncouth vulgarities that come with it. And now that's exactly what's sitting in the White House largely because the democratic alternatives weren't much better and offered nothing more than business as usual. That, or Americans were too busy to bother themselves with politics.

And now everyone after years of living on a diet of entertainment, zoloft, and "keeping up with the Joneses" is a freedom fighting political pundit.
Where were all these voices of outrage the past 8 years? We were at war the entire 8 years, killed countless of innocent civilians abroad with new techno weaponry, and broke up thousands of latino immigrant families via mass deportations (The "Deporter in Chief")

Self righteous lamentations are nothing more than a virtue signaling meme.



Last edited by ant on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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