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Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

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DWill

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Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

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Flann 5 wrote: I think this is creating a false dichotomy Youkrst. You could hardly say that the civil rights marches and struggles by such as Martin Luther King jr. had nothing to do with Christianity or justice in this world.
Those who espoused Liberation theology in Latin America (whether interpreting correctly or not) were influenced by Christian ideals as they understood it. Justice was central to that movement. Christian groups are also involved in combating human trafficking and other real problems in our time.
You can't read the Prophets and fail to see a concern for justice.
"False dichotomy" is probably the most common mistake in the casual use of history, so thanks for mentioning it. It would be a natural result of choosing sides in the conflicts of the past order to bolster one's beliefs. There's nothing so gratifying as the support of the ages. It's not that surprising, though, that we create these simplified versions of the past. We know we can't make sense of the complexities of the present; we can't even be informed enough about most of them to even begin to try. But the past is a playground where we can pretend that all these hard complexities and ambiguities didn't exist, and where just a few "facts," whether true or not, will do for us. What we come up with is often the equivalent of a fairy tale, with well-defined figures of good and evil, a satisfying retreat from our helplessness in the present.

Reinhold Niebuhr put it well when he said,"Modern man lacks the humility to accept the fact that the whole drama of history is enacted in a frame of meaning too large for human comprehension or management."
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Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

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Flann 5 wrote:You could hardly say that the civil rights marches and struggles by such as Martin Luther King jr. had nothing to do with Christianity or justice in this world.
As I pointed out in another thread with a powerful quote from Frederick Douglass, Christianity was also a "justifier and sanctifier" of slavery. Any moral system that can be used to support both sides of such a monstrous practice is a failure.
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When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; even though you multiply your prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood.
Isaiah 1:15

But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Exodus 21: 23 - 25
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Flann 5
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Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

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Hi Dwill. Thanks for your considered post. Maybe false dichotomy is inaccurate. False options might be better.
The premise was that if one believes that God will dispense ultimate justice this provides an inevitable incentive to indifference to justice in our world with real consequences for present justice.
Of course indifference to justice exists practically for all sorts of people and it's usually when something impinges on us personally that we might think about it.
I don't think it's a fair inference from the biblical literature that Christianity promotes indifference to justice in this world.
Of course historically professing Christians have acted unjustly themselves which makes you wonder if they believed in ultimate justice,certainly in the more murderous episodes.
I judge them to have acted unjustly and contrary to Christ's teaching.
It's not just playing the history game and the examples I gave of positive contributions from Christianity are fair reflections of it's motivation for them.
Justice is important and necessary for any society. I don't think it's importance decreases now though it has ragged edges in terms of human failing and the impossibility of always ensuring it. It's by definition important now and also in ultimate terms.
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Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

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LanDroid wrote:As I pointed out in another thread with a powerful quote from Frederick Douglass, Christianity was also a "justifier and sanctifier" of slavery. Any moral system that can be used to support both sides of such a monstrous practice is a failure.
So why do you think, Landroid, that so many of the slaves who actually experienced this hypocrisy and abuse didn't just reject Christianity as you seem to as hypocritical baloney?
Could they have seen and made some distinction between these things? It seems that many did.
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Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

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Flann 5 wrote:Hi Bishop.
I watched Jacobovici's video which you posted. It's good that you are interested in Bauckham's critique. The commentary on that video sounded quite robotic. Strange.
Generally speaking the Gnostic writings are not geographically or historically placed. You get references to the odd well known city like Jerusalem but nothing like the geographic detail found in the four gospels.
So I wouldn't find such writings persuasive in terms of historicity. It seems as best I can tell, that the early Gnostics did believe in the historicity of Jesus.
Some Gnostics did not believe in his materiality and corporeal reality. That would make marriage for Jesus a somewhat incongruous reality if that was the case.
What about Jesus is more important to you? If he lived or not or whether he was a wise Rabbi?

Or is it the fact that he may have condemned you and then turned around and dies for you to reverse his own condemnation of you?

Do you need a savior and is that why you have swallowed all kinds of supernatural beliefs like resurection?

Regards
DL
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Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

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youkrst wrote:i hold that there is nothing of value in christianity that wouldn't be just as good if not better without christianity.

...
No argument.

Do you see their tenets as moral?

Substitutionary atonement and the no divorce for women clause in particular?

Regards
DL
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Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

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youkrst wrote:you know ant, anti christ is a bad translation, pseudo christ would be much better, more accurate.

you know who the real pseudo christ is ant?

the christ of orthodoxy :-D

and at a deeper level, psychologically, we must all rise above the pseudo christ within.
:
In esoteric terms, I would have said accept the Christ mind and raise it to the right side of our God within or into our higher mind but we have no argument.

Have you ever noted that Michelangelo was also into esoteric interpretations that he incorporated into his art unbeknownst to the Pope?

Note the shape God sits in. The right hemisphere of the brain.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=michelan ... m&imgdii=_

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DL
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Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

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LanDroid wrote:
Flann 5 wrote:You could hardly say that the civil rights marches and struggles by such as Martin Luther King jr. had nothing to do with Christianity or justice in this world.
As I pointed out in another thread with a powerful quote from Frederick Douglass, Christianity was also a "justifier and sanctifier" of slavery. Any moral system that can be used to support both sides of such a monstrous practice is a failure.
No argument.

I do have a question.

In a land with starving poor who sell themselves into slavery, can and was slavery not just seen as the welfare system of the City States?

I am not supporting slavery for today but in those days where death was the only option, could that be how slavery came to be?

Please answer from more of a historical view than religious.

Regards
DL
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Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

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DWill wrote:We know we can't make sense of the complexities of the present; we can't even be informed enough about most of them to even begin to try.
an argument for just giving up? :wink:
Flann wrote:so many of the slaves who actually experienced this hypocrisy and abuse didn't just reject Christianity
stockholm syndrome? :wink:
GB wrote:Do you see their tenets as moral?

Substitutionary atonement and the no divorce for women clause in particular?
two damnably immoral tenets right there GB :coco:
GB wrote:Have you ever noted that Michelangelo was also into esoteric interpretations that he incorporated into his art unbeknownst to the Pope?
clever fellow that Michelangelo, one might say he was wise as a serpent but harmless as a dove :-D
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Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

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youkrst wrote:
DWill wrote:We know we can't make sense of the complexities of the present; we can't even be informed enough about most of them to even begin to try.
an argument for just giving up? :wink:
Flann wrote:so many of the slaves who actually experienced this hypocrisy and abuse didn't just reject Christianity
stockholm syndrome? :wink:
GB wrote:Do you see their tenets as moral?

Substitutionary atonement and the no divorce for women clause in particular?
two damnably immoral tenets right there GB :coco:
GB wrote:Have you ever noted that Michelangelo was also into esoteric interpretations that he incorporated into his art unbeknownst to the Pope?
clever fellow that Michelangelo, one might say he was wise as a serpent but harmless as a dove :-D
I strive hard to be harmless but I have something worth hating and admit that it has made me harmful to those who go against me. I hurt their heads.

Regards
DL
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