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Dislike of Science

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Niall001
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Re: Dislike of Science

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Can I ask where people get the idea that theists have something against science? I mean throughout school and college most of my science teachers have been theists. And they were pretty much in synch with mainstream scientific thought. Let us agree, there is no one single reality. Not upon this stage, not in this world, all is in the mind... imagination is the only truth. Because it cannot be contradicted except by other imaginations - Richard MathesonThere are no conclusive indications by which waking life can be distinguished from sleep - Rene Descartes
Doc Tiessen

Re: Dislike of Science

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Sakis,yes I fully agree. Religion is only a strategy of dominating the masses. That is one of the reasons why I chose to be a scientist, and not a priest. But you are correct... it will not be possible that the church will ever loose power over the masses. But I am happy that science is getting more and more attention... even with the priests...But well, I do not have a mercedes like them... Diversity is Good!
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Dissident Heart

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Re: Dislike of Science

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Religion is many things to many people. Some of which employ it to dominate, oppress and abuse others. Others find narratives, tools, practices and solidarity geared around great hope for liberation and new life. Still others find a sort of semi-sacred routine of every dayness charted out and structured within a system of coordinates they are niether excited about nor given too much to question.For some it is the opiate of the masses, as Marx described it, and a way to keep the oppressed oblivious to their chains and patiently awaiting the 'sweet by and by' where justice will finally prevail...all the while, in pained servility, accepting the worst sorts of injustices here on earth.For others it is a neurotic wishfulfiment tied to a personal and species Oedipus complex, as Freud argued, keeping humanity trapped in infantile fantasies of a childhood they will never regain.For some it is the resentful yearning for punishment and revenge by the impotent and defeated in life, as Nietzsche describes, hungering to get some chance at winning, defeating, destroying, finding vindication in a world where they have been painfully powerless.Of course, these same psychological flaws are present in many of those who seek Science as the explanation, guide, director, teacher, and hope in a world full of so much stupidity, lunacy, irrational and dangerous absurdity.
amd2003

The Rat is Always Right

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: Of course, these same psychological flaws are present in many of those who seek Science as the explanation, guide, director, teacher, and hope in a world full of so much stupidity, lunacy, irrational and dangerous absurdity.There is a key difference. Scientific knowledge grows by people being able to replicate others' work. Data is king. If something cannot be replicated, it is wrong, even if Einstein claimed it. Individual humans may be highly fallible but the instituion of science has great strength due to its practices.The Rat is Always Right. It is the scientist who is right only some of the time.amd
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Dissident Heart

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Re: The Rat is Always Right

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The key, as I see it, involves the Scientist, or anyone, driven in the pursuit of knowledge, truth, wisdom, beauty, power....whatever, and this process finding its roots in human, all too human passion for vengeance, domination, release, excitement, and a will to placate past angers and present resentments.This is always part of the data.
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Re: The Rat is Always Right

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Those that dislike science usually do so because science is not telling them what they want to hear. It really is that simple.Science doesn't agree the Earth is only a few thousand years old. Christians consider the Bible to be the word of God, and when interpreted literally, the Bible says our planet is young. So science and the Bible clash. Christians want to believe that the Bible is correct and science is wrong.The Bible promises things that science just can't promise. Christians think there is a being somewhere out there that loves and cares for them. Christians believe they will die and be reunited with their loved ones, as long as they followed the rules of the Bible. What does science promise? You die and are gone forever. Science = painful thoughts.Science doesn't support much of what we read about in the Quran or Bible. Science doesn't support the teachings of Siddhartha or the ancient Greek, Norse and Indian gods. The bottom line is science is a process for uncovering or describing the nature or behavior of objective reality, and it operates, ideally, independent of the practitioners' desires, thoughts and fears. Science delivers the goods, but theists want to stamp "Return to Sender" on the delivery if they don't like the color, size or taste.Chris "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandella
amd2003

Re: The Rat is Always Right

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: science operates, ideally, independent of the practitioners' desires, thoughts and fears.Individual scientists may well have all kinds of flaws. However, the "process" of checks and balances produces superior results. If someone fakes results (and people have been known to do so), they will be caught sooner or later and will be worse off. Skinner has written quite eloquently about this. (I can't remember where. Otherwise, I will provide a reference.)
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Re: The Rat is Always Right

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The Scientist's choice to research ways of renewable energy- as opposed to developing more lethal nuclear weaponry; to build affordable, ecologically sustainable, beautiful housing- as opposed to engineering massive metal structures of collosal size, enormous resources, and oppressive office space; to say "no" to the demands of military coercion and market bribery- or say "yes" to imperial designs and nationalist aspirations or class oppression......all of this is not cut and dried objective science.These are human choices reflecting ideological agendas, class allegiences, and personal idiosyncrasies.Science and data are never free of this.
Sakis Totlis

Re: dislike of science

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A scientist has never slaughtered any other scientist because of his scientific beliefs. It sounds absurd even to say so. A scientist will never try to intimidate or talk down other scientists in order to support a scientific case. He will try to sustain it with rational arguments and successful experiments. A scientific case is objective, not personal. It would be silly to see two scientists fist fighting over a scientific case. They would both focus on some rational arguments (pro or con); they would not fall against each other. For the same grounds it is impossible to wage a war for scientific reasons. Science unites the world. Scientific language, unlike any religious language, is credible, contemporary and universal. An Iraqi Muslim may disagree with and hate an American Christian, but an Iraqi dentist shares a common language and vocation with an American dentist. A scientist is not a crusader, nor an inquisition fanatic. His profession is to serve, to improve everything, even weapons. Politicians or religious fanatics may use weapons for wrong purposes, but not a scientist, as a scientist. You don't blame some technician or technology, for example, if medieval inquisition had so fine tools of torture. You blame the Catholic Church. Nobody ever blamed American scientists because the American army that invaded Iraq was equipped with such advanced weapons. They blame Bush - a bad politician. They blame him even worse for waging a war using religious logic and arguments. Do you remember him saying that Iraq is the "evil land?" Did he say that as a religious fanatic that he is or as a scientist? This comparison of religion and science seems totally inept.
amd2003

Re: dislike of science

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: The Scientist's choice to research ways of renewable energy- as opposed to developing more lethal nuclear weaponry; .......These are human choices reflecting ideological agendas, class allegiences, and personal idiosyncrasies.Nobody claims that scientists only do the socially most appropriate thing (assuming that such a thing can be identified). Scientists choose their work based on a number of factors many of which may be mundane and even objectionable. However, the beauty of science arises in the "interaction between the scientists". When a result is reported, whether it gets accepted or not depends, in the long run, not on the reporter's position or prestige but whether others are able to replicate it or not. (During the short run, a powerful scientist may well be able to thwart others. This won't surivive in the long run.)amd
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