Robert Tulip wrote:Doulos wrote:...about your assertion that Christian hatred of Jews was rooted in "questions of identity, especially political tribal conflict rooted in war and imperialism.'
How do you see this in light of the Jewish origins of Jesus and the early church?
My view is that the Gospel of Mark, upon which the other Gospels were primarily based for their story of a historical Jesus, was probably written in Alexandria in Egypt after the exodus of the Jews from Israel following the Roman War and the destruction of Jerusalem. Christianity was originally aimed at linking Jews and Greeks as 'all one in Christ Jesus' as Paul puts it in Galatians 3:28. However, over time Christianity became primarily a religion for non-Jews, since continuing Judaism rejected the messianic claims around Jesus. Across the diaspora, the Jews retained a tribal identity through Torah and synagogue. As Christianity evolved into an imperial religion, providing moral legitimacy for Christendom, the existence of Jews as unbelievers in Christ became more of an anomaly.
I'd be in general agreement with you on the main points here, though not on the dating of Mark.
Robert Tulip wrote:
The anti-Semitic lines in the Bible, especially Matthew's blood guilt line at 27:25, then came to serve a racist propaganda purpose. My view is that the Gospel authors sought to blame the Romans and the Jews equally for failing to understand Christ. However, as Christianity was co-opted by empire, the Jews were scapegoated and the Roman guilt was minimised.
Possible, but do you have any evidence to support this theory?
I would also question the Gospel authors' 'blame' idea, since there are many passages which make the explicit point that fulfillment of prophesy is the primary message, and not establishing guilt in Jesus' arrest, trial and death.
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father
(John 10:18)
Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?
(Matthew 26:53-4)
...he humbled himself and became obedient to death--even death on a cross!(Phillipians 2:8)
Robert Tulip wrote:
The situation of the Jews was most certainly a product of tribal identity shaped by Empire. The mixing of all people in the common era left the Jews as recalcitrants who refused to worship Caesar, rejecting what the Gospels call the 'abominating desolation in the temple'. This old insistence on maintaining their cultural identity was a main reason for the emergence of racism against them among the dominant culture.
I'm afraid this is where your arguement breaks down the most.
Whose tribal identity is shaped/being shaped?
The 'mixing of peoples' theme is also questionable, since Christians themselves were persecuted and did not 'mix' until BEGINNING in the reign of Constantine in 313 AD, and even then we have the Julian turning back the clock in 361 AD.
At best then, you're talking of a late 4th century START to your idea, which would place roughly 350 years where Christianity was not anti-Judaism.
This does not mean that your idea isn't a possibility, but it does mean there would need to be strong evidence to counter the difficulties within it. Good thought process in general though. Well done
'abominating desolation in the temple'- please try to get your quotes right though. This has been translated 'the abomination that causes desolation' or 'abomination of desolation,' but I'm not even sure grammatically what an 'abominating desolation' would be