So, since definitions are important to clarify before having a lengthy, important discussion, are liberals in agreement with what "defund the police" actually means?

I say, far from it.

But it's a cool sign to hold up in the middle of anarchy.

I don't know much about this new call to "defund the police." But mass movements generally are not well defined or well organized. The Tea Party movement, for example, gained momentum in 2010s but lacked a clear agenda and never had a leader.

But here's what I think. There's very clearly a problem of police brutality in our country and people have had enough. There are too many bad cops like Derek Chauvin, the guy who knelt on George Floyd’s neck for eight minutes while other cops stood around and watched. Unfortunately, this kind of thing isn’t that rare. We need to see some major changes in our police departments across the country.

Police departments in many U.S. cities are becoming increasingly militarized and sometimes that extra firepower is needed. But too often those over-aggressive, militarized cops pose a danger to the citizens they're supposed to serve.

During the recent wave of protests, police trampled on our First Amendment rights of free speech and freedom of assembly. See what happened when Donald Trump wanted to take a photo-op in front of a church. Police agencies used tear gas and rubber bullets on American citizens who were totally within their rights to be there and peacefully protest.

Do you recall the incident in Florida a couple years back when a police officer shot an unarmed health care worker (black) who was pleading with cops NOT to not shoot him because he was only trying to help an autistic man under his care? The stupid cop shot him anyway, though he was lying on the ground with his arms raised up. In this particular situation, the cop's limited skillset made him useless and even dangerous.

The “defund police” movement apparently arose in Minneapolis. No one is saying to dismantle police departments, but to defund them somewhat and use that money for social programs to actually help people.

The concept of defund the police is simple: When cities start investing in community services, they reduce the need to call police in instances when police officers’ specific skill set isn’t required.

If this is the goal of this movement, I’m all for it.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... e-1007254/

I agree with both of you, Ant and Geo.

I want to add a few facts here that the liberal media and community refuse to even acknowledge. And it sucks that I'm nervous to even share my opinion here because of how the far-left reacts to any and all challenges to their core positions.

Please note that I believe George Floyd didn't deserve a knee on the neck or to die. The cops need to be held accountable. The cop that killed him needs to be behind bars for a long time and the other 3 need some sort of lesser punishment or time behind bars.

But I do want to say that the black community is putting George on a pedestal as if he is a martyr and quality human being. Some liken him to a hero. George Floyd was a complete piece of shit. He was no hero. In this case he was a VICTIM of police brutality but he isn't a hero.

- George Floyd had been arrested 9 times and spent much of his life behind bars.
- He had Covid-19, fentanyl and methamphetamine in his system and this potentially contributed to his death. Again, he didn't deserve to die.
- He was involved in a home invasion with 4 other criminals where he personally pistol whipped a terrified pregnant woman and held a loaded gun to her belly threatening to kill her and her baby.

The far-left says we should focus on the police brutality. Just imagine you're a cop and you deal with piece of shit people like George Floyd day in and day out. They flip you off, cuss you out, chant "fuck the police," and generally hate law enforcement. Cops are expected to be social workers and counselors to deal with the abuse without snapping. I'd never want the job in a million years especially in a community as wrought with crime and cop-haters as in Minneapolis.

"Defunding the police" is atrocious messaging. (Being pessimistic, it would not surprise me if Trump wins on that alone.) When right wingers rant about "defund Planned Parenthood", are they talking about reform? No, they want to permanently close those establishments. So what do they think when they see "Defund the police"? Paranoid right wingers are instantly convinced the left wants to eliminate all police departments. I can't fault them, in this environment that is what the phrase sounds like as an immediate superficial reaction, which is as far as most Americans take it.

Better phrasing and actions could be some of the following, which some police chiefs support.
"De-militarize the police"
"Reform the police"
Increase de-escalation training
Raise standards of conduct and pay -> once again Chris Rock nailzit! I don't think we pay the police enough!

Some actions the police might prefer to be left out of:
Drug overdoses, let medical pros do it (A local police chief refuses to do this claiming it endangers officers, let them die.)
Truancy
mental health crisis, let medical pros do it
welfare/health checks, ditto
moving homeless people into shelters
Can't anyone else control traffic lights?

So "defunding" could mean removing some of those responsibilities and transferring $ to other agencies for those tasks. Makes sense / might bring a sense of relief to overwrought police depts?

I'm not sure if this movement is going to die out as many others have, it will probably keep going. Old guys will remember how the reputation of the police suffered mightily after cracking down on caucasian protestors at the 1968 Democratic convention. Well now once again it's the skulls of white people getting cracked, run over by police cars, tear ducts burned by gas, etc. I expect a light bulb is turning on again as caucasians feel a bit of that blue heat and the codes of silence that protect it.

I wonder if the pregnant woman who Floyd held a gun to her belly will be canonizing him like so many liberals are doing today?
This is precisely why I stay off bandwagons of any kind; there is always something ethically/ morally contemptible, inherent in their groupthink.

Anyway, we likely will be hearing about how Camden, NJ can be held as a shinning example of a city that defunded or dismantled their police department, and as such experienced a significant reduction in crime.

Well, it didn't exactly defund or dismantle anything:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/ ... he-police/

So Camden did not “abolish police,” as some of the more radical voices in the current debate claim, but actually employed more police — and more law enforcement. As the now-retired chief who led the transition explained, understaffing had made his city force a “triage unit going from emergency to emergency.” Staffing up enabled more proactive policing

The Rolling Stone article Geo linked is a reasoned approach, in my opinion.

The power behind the Democratic Party wants a national police force. Obama talked about it in 2008: "...We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful (as the military), just as strong, just as well-funded."

Obama and his initiatives were supported by George Soros, an America hater. An article from four years ago:

Soros Exposed Plotting to Nationalize American Police
thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/23 ... can-police

Hitler nationalized the police in order to make them directly answerable to him. This is what's planned for America, a Gestapo. The Democrats are clumsy at misdirection but successful. They scream about Trump the dictator, but what's really being set up is absolute power for a Leftist regime.

I find it sad that Democratic voters would support the dismantling of their local police departments. Some departments are good and some are bad, but the bad ones can be fixed. But to hear the leftist media tell it, police gun down black people with abandon. In 2019 police killed 10 unarmed blacks nationwide.

Tucker Carlson goes through all 10 cases of unarmed black people killed by police from 2019
(Same video at 3 locations, since leftist YouTube labels Carlson's pieces "hate speech" and pulls them down)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wltu33avVjs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABnD7Fuxy_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33vP7XP8qMs

I don't know that there's any way to get through to Leftists with information like the above. The fact that they're even discussing doing away with police after the week of mayhem we've just seen shows that they're not thinking clearly.

This summarizes it pretty well, KOS:

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/do-po ... ck-people/

And as defined as years of life lost due to police violence, here:

There were 57 375 and 54 754 YLLs due to police violence in 2015 and 2016, respectively. People of colour comprised 38.5% of the population, but 51.5% of YLLs. YLLs were greatest among those aged 25–34 years, and the number of YLLs at younger ages was greater among people of colour than whites.

https://jech.bmj.com/content/72/8/715


Edit:

I agree with Tucker Carlson when we doubts we are experiencing the genocide of black americans at the hands of the police. We are not. That is just liberal claptrap.

What we are experiencing is the disproportionate killing of blacks and people of color.

Ant wrote:I agree with Tucker Carlson when we doubts we are experiencing the genocide of black americans at the hands of the police. We are not. That is just liberal claptrap. What we are experiencing is the disproportionate killing of blacks and people of color.

I don't know who is using the word "genocide," but sounds like if we take that off the table we are in agreement.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... pen-season


I don't care how you slice it, I disagree

What happened to the big democratic governors (NY and CA) for starters saying they follow the science, they follow the facts, ,they are supportive of what the science is telling us to do despite the science denier in the White House?

Why didn't any of them have the guts to speak out against the protesters that for day after day after day went berserk in the middle of a deadly pandemic?

I don't want to hear one word about any upcoming Trump conventions endangering the lives of countless people because of a COVID19.