Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:39 pm





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Dawkins is my hero! 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Owner
Diamond Contributor 3

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 16170
Location: Florida
Thanks: 3493
Thanked: 1326 times in 1045 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Dawkins is my hero!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fibl2A3Ai7o&feature=related[/youtube]



Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:07 am
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I Should Be Bronzed

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1655
Location: Hampton, Ga
Thanks: 254
Thanked: 325 times in 248 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
That was retarded. What was Dawkins trying to prove? That religious people are closed minded and will gleefully explain how you're wrong and will burn in hell - with charm and a friendly smile? ??? Pointless. It wasn't even entertaining.

I'm on dial-up so it took me forever for that thing to load. What a complete waste of time. Dawkins is a moron for doing the interview. He obviously doesn't have any skill for it. He looked like he was about to choke on his own saliva when that drug using, cock smoking Ted Haggard was talking at him.

Tell your buddy never to do an interview like that again. The ending where Haggard threw him off of the property was super weak, too. How unprofessional of Dawkins to stoop below the people he's trying to educate. Way to be a leader Dawkins!

Forcing people to do things, ill-humor, poking fun at what people think they know, and negative reinforcement are tactics he's employing here. What an as*hole Dawkins is for trying to make these disillusioned people feel worse about science, scientists and intellectuals. You want to know why these people are so united? Because of stunts like this one.

Maybe Haggard has a point (other than the one in his pants that he likes boys to ride on). Maybe this is why intellectuals are the villains in comic books and why America looks down on them; they attack people and make them feel stupid. That's hurting Dawkins's long term goals of eliminating these religious shenanigans. Idiot.



Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:33 pm
Profile Email YIM
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Owner
Diamond Contributor 3

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 16170
Location: Florida
Thanks: 3493
Thanked: 1326 times in 1045 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
I'm completely shocked by your response to this video. I can't even believe you watched the same video as me.



Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:14 am
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I Should Be Bronzed

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1655
Location: Hampton, Ga
Thanks: 254
Thanked: 325 times in 248 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
Fighting this type of thinking is noble. Comparing someone to the Nazis is tiresome and trite. Doing it without wit is painful to watch.

Dawkins would have had a far more favorable impact on me had he just narrated the short video and commented on what he saw, educating me why this type of group-think brainwashing was destroying free thought.

Show me crazy people gyrating, talking in tongues, giving up their hard earned money, saying Amen and nodding in approval while listening why science is the devil. Show me why these people are crazy.

I don't know. The video struck me as unprofessional. Although I've never met Dawkins or read one of his books, I'm less inclined to do so now. This Jerry Springer/ Geraldo Rivera type of contrived drama is garbage.

Leave the sensationalism to the preachers.



Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:21 am
Profile Email YIM
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I can has reading?

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2954
Location: Leesburg, VA
Thanks: 481
Thanked: 398 times in 302 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post What do you get when you put together twSelf righteous men?
Camacho wrote:
Quote:
Fighting this type of thinking is noble. Comparing someone to the Nazis is tiresome and trite. Doing it without wit is painful to watch.


Yikes! I have to agree with The Prez on this one, minus the cursing and lewd references. I felt uncomfortable listening to Dawkins interview Haggard. First and for most I believe we must always approach others with at the very least basic respect for their humanity. Better yet is to extend the same respect and dignity that we would like to be shown. It really does not matter how much we disagree with their ideas and beliefs. For me, I would even go as far as to say this holds true even if that person acts on his or her beliefs in such a way as to cause me harm or injury. I would hope that I have the strength of character to still treat them with basic respect. It is very clear to me that Dawkins has no respect what so ever for these born again Christians or Haggard. Dawkins' purpose is to show us, rational people, how foolish these folks are. He is not really interested in persuading them to see the light (so to speak) of reason. Dawkins really misses the point of why people are drawn to this type of faith. It is so much more than just wanting meaning in ones life. In fact, I believe he has over estimated the power of science and misunderstood it's place in the grand scheme of things. Science is simply one method of gaining information. It can not now or ever I believe, tell us the meaning of life. It can not comfort in times of great loss or in the darkest part of a night. It can never explain the ultimate mysteries of life such as:
Why are we here?
Why did inert molecules spontaneously become living matter?
Why did the pre-traits that eventually become a body structure ever get genetically encoded in the first place? Case in point, for all those reading Inner Fish - teeth. The first place we see them in the fossil record is in conodonts (a jawless fish that had teeth). So, what was the pre-adaptation that the teeth evolved from? And before that? And before that? Where did the original mutation, gene or what ever come from?
There really are somethings we will never know. I'm good with that.

The role of science and the role religion are very different. Why are we trying to make them go head to head? Why even get drawn into this trap?



Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:11 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I Should Be Bronzed

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1655
Location: Hampton, Ga
Thanks: 254
Thanked: 325 times in 248 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
I can understand Dawkins' and OConnor's frustrations with these people. It would be OK if they did what they did without getting involved with politics. When people fall for something like religion a logical person can reason why they did it. One reason is that the person needs some kind of emotional ejaculation that the priest provides for them. They give money for this "spiritual" ejaculation over and over. It feels so nice. The Church in this sense provides a valuable service!

When the Church starts convincing their army of addicted closet-cases that science, free thought, and everyone that is not just like them is evil - they become an incredibly subversive element in America. When they pool their zombie's contributions and put it towards swaying government policy it alters the course of the entire country.

Public education was probably a great way of uniting the country when it was created. Think about it. You had children from various nations dispersed throughout the US. Public education gave them a single language and passed along moral lessons, values... a number of things to help everyone get on the same page.

What the Church is doing is undermining this goal by pushing their agenda. They want to make sure people are taught their lessons so that they can remain in business. Jesus is a great franchise. Eat Jesus!

We need to wake up and realize that morals, values, and ethics are important. Jesus, one man, is not. God is not. Can you imagine the finality of dying without an afterlife? Some people say this is a great reason for people to do things without fear of reprisal. The first thing I think is that these people want people to live with fear. The second thing I think is that it's complete nonsense because if you only have one shot to make it right - MAKE IT RIGHT!

The Church can be replaced with science, easily. Science includes ethics and philosophy. It was made by people in the pursuit of truth. TRUTH. Everything we know is because someone worked for it; it wasn't given from some abstract entity. These people refused to shrug their shoulders and say "must be because of god." How lazy is that?

Those questions that you're asking - you seem to be comfortable with shrugging your shoulders. That's what the Church wants. Get comfy - we're here for you. You are one of us. Put up your feet. Can I offer a massage? Look at everyone else. They are so happy. Forget about the issue. Forget. God will do it for you. Relax. Yes. SSSSHHHHHHHHH.

The Church needs to be completely altered.



Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:19 am
Profile Email YIM
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I can has reading?

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2954
Location: Leesburg, VA
Thanks: 481
Thanked: 398 times in 302 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post 
Camancho:
Quote:
Public education was probably a great way of uniting the country when it was created. Think about it. You had children from various nations dispersed throughout the US. Public education gave them a single language and passed along moral lessons, values... a number of things to help everyone get on the same page.


Umm, that was the very point of public education.



Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:42 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I can has reading?

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2954
Location: Leesburg, VA
Thanks: 481
Thanked: 398 times in 302 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post 
President Camacho wrote:

When the Church starts convincing their army of addicted closet-cases that science, free thought, and everyone that is not just like them is evil


It will never happen. People are not zombies. Even if they subscribe to a religion. And exactly which "Church" are you talking about? And are you just speaking of the USA?

Quote:
The Church can be replaced with science, easily. Science includes ethics and philosophy. It was made by people in the pursuit of truth. TRUTH. Everything we know is because someone worked for it; it wasn't given from some abstract entity. These people refused to shrug their shoulders and say "must be because of god." How lazy is that?


Which church? All churches? Freedom to think? Freedom to adopt ones own values? Practice religion or not?

Quote:
Those questions that you're asking - you seem to be comfortable with shrugging your shoulders. That's what the Church wants. Get comfy - we're here for you. You are one of us. Put up your feet. Can I offer a massage? Look at everyone else. They are so happy. Forget about the issue. Forget. God will do it for you. Relax. Yes. SSSSHHHHHHHHH.



I have no intention of shrugging my shoulders. I was responding to the tactics used by Dawkins in the video. What I was trying to say in my first post in this thread was that the way to have this conversation is with respect.



Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:26 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I Should Be Bronzed

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1655
Location: Hampton, Ga
Thanks: 254
Thanked: 325 times in 248 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
I say "church" as a broad generalization of some popular organized religions around the globe. I'm sure you know which ones I'm referring to based on my criticisms. I'm attacking religion - not A religion.

As for my colorful remark about zombies, some people are talked into religions that totally control their lives. It's happened before and will happen again. An example of this is the Jonestown tragedy. No, they weren't zombies and there were a significant amount of people that didn't want to drink the kool-aid. I'm aware they did so at gun-point. Why did they give up all their possessions and move to Guyana though? Obviously they believed in the teachings of the People's Temple Christian Church despite what friends and family had to say about it.

Is this the only case where people have sacrificed all their possessions in the name of their religion, their church? Nope.

Let me stop. I don't want to argue religion. You can't. It's pointless and that's what Dawkins - most likely a much smarter person than me, should have known! You can't argue with a brick wall - a zombie! What did he hope to prove or to change by doing the interview? Nothing. He just wanted the jollies of verbally abusing Haggard.



Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:09 pm
Profile Email YIM
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I can has reading?

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2954
Location: Leesburg, VA
Thanks: 481
Thanked: 398 times in 302 posts
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post 
P Camacho:
Quote:
What did he hope to prove or to change by doing the interview? Nothing. He just wanted the jollies of verbally abusing Haggard.


Yes, exactly. All I was trying to say was I believe this is wrong.



Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:43 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5823
Location: Canberra
Thanks: 2283
Thanked: 2211 times in 1671 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Australia (au)

Post 
I have read a number of Dawkins' books, and follow his anti-religion crusade with interest. I like his approach, as he has determined that shock value will help many uninformed people to realise that the creeping ignorance of fundamentalism needs to be directly confronted. His media stunts are designed to show the gulf of understanding that prevents dialogue between rational thought and some of the ignorant sects which have large followings. However, in The God Delusion, Dawkins fails to engage with serious theology. His aim seems quite ad hominem - by showing that many Christians are stupid, he invalidly infers that all Christians are stupid.

The syllogism

1. Believing in God is stupid
2. Christians believe in God
3. Therefore Christians are stupid

cannot be proved by showing that only some beliefs in God are stupid. It would need to demonstrate that all belief in God is stupid, but Dawkins has really only scratched the surface on this.

The flaw in Dawkins' logic, conflating the part with the whole, results from his position as an evangelical atheist. His proslytising is not swayed by nuance and refinement. A scattergun approach may seem sufficient to serve as a 'canary in the coalmine' regarding the dangers of uninformed faith, but Dawkins should be more open to dialogue with theists who are capable of it.



Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:25 am
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Genuinely Genius

Silver Contributor

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 806
Location: NC
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: Female
Country: United States (us)

Post 
I kinda felt like Haggard overreacted! I didn't think that Dawkins said anything that was arrogant. He stood his ground. I am kinda biased though. Dawkins is a hero of mine too!



Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:50 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I Should Be Bronzed

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1655
Location: Hampton, Ga
Thanks: 254
Thanked: 325 times in 248 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
Standing his ground implies, to me, a defensive action. Dawkins came into Haggards home and within a couple seconds compared him to Nazis...

Stand his ground? lol - He left "his ground" to verbally attack this nut ball.

Why get into an argument with a deranged individual? I don't go to the nut house and find people I disagree with and attack them. Trying to change their opinions is one thing. Verbally abusing them is entirely different.

I understand he's hacking at what he perceives to be the root but the video just makes him look undignified and slightly foolish.



Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:23 pm
Profile Email YIM
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Owner
Diamond Contributor 3

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 16170
Location: Florida
Thanks: 3493
Thanked: 1326 times in 1045 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
Quote:
Why get into an argument with a deranged individual?


Because this deranged individual is spreading his deranged message to the public. I am a member of the public. He is causing damage to society by teaching people dangerous and foolish ideas.

I am shocked that you feel Dawkins was out of line in this video. I've not watched it several times and think Dawkins didn't do or say anything inappropriate.



Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:34 pm
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I Should Be Bronzed

Silver Contributor

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1655
Location: Hampton, Ga
Thanks: 254
Thanked: 325 times in 248 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
I'm not back peddling. I want to make my point absolutely clear.

1. Dawkins is trying to achieve his long term goal the wrong way.

and

2. Emotional and melodramatic attacks aren't in keeping with intellectualism, logic, or science.

Honestly, it is not people like us that I'm concerned about. I'm most concerned with those already brainwashed and those who are likely to be. This type of behavior might make me smile inside (short term) but hurts me (long term) because it strengthens the (false?) image these people have of intellectuals/scientists.

I'm sure you can step back and agree that the path Dawkins takes in this video isn't the one that is going to win these people over. That's why Dawkins was out of line.

Not because he is wrong but because he is wrong to think he will bring about any kind of change with this behavior. If all he wants is cheerleaders inside the scientific community - he's got one right here. But if he wants to actually educate these as*holes and bring them into the light, his strategy SUCKS.



Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:03 pm
Profile Email YIM
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page 1, 2  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
How To Promote Your Book





BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2019. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank