I met Dave Silverman only just yesterday:

His manor as witnessed in the debate Chris posted is what you get. He's assertive for sure. His job, his means for a living is as president of American Atheists. His position puts him at the vanguard of social reform activism. His debate with McFarlan is just one event forum that covered just one aspect of the atheist agenda. (whether Christianity is bad /good for America) American Atheist are not interested in reforming religion, Only just to diminish religious influence in public governance. Chris's posted video shows the difficult nature of the question of not only Christianity's hypocrisy but the hypocrisy of all religions. American Atheist does not have as a goal the reform of religions but the diminution of the influence they each wield.

I agree with the premise of diminution, I do not think it can be argued that the influence of religion has not caused and is not causing great harms, including mental and physical. For example: There was a person at the lecture that afterwards approached two friends and I, this person was troubling, there was an emotional disturbance that was apparent from a life time of confused ideas about out of body experiences and eventual membership in the church of scientology. My friends and I listened with sympathetic interest, but this person was just to far gone. What we managed as a response was to empathize and congratulate their escape but our hands were tied with regards to the paranoia displayed and wild stories of arson and intimidation. This person was clearly harmed by religious affiliation.

Dave Silverman's atheism is what he "calls conclusionary. We have concluded that gods are myths because we've seen sufficient evidence and heard or read sufficient arguments to convince us there are no gods." This is a quote from his book Fighting God: An atheist manifesto for a religious world that I agree with. It should be recognized that prior to my participation on Booktalk that I was in essence fertile ground, in this sense, that the whole debate over God, creation and intelligent design, the origins of the cosmos and even of species. For all of this I was a neophyte. I have been relying for the past half dozen years on what has been presented here on Booktalk as a sort of guide, whether through direct debate or linked materials and my own researched materials. I have studied as best I am able and concluded for myself that the atheist side has a more convincing train of thought.

Dave Silverman's mission is to move atheism to the main stream of public acknowledgement. Put another way his goal is a seat for atheist's at all tables because there is in all aspects of life an ever growing atheist contingent. A point of his that I found interesting was the various terms by which people refer to them selves, such as Atheist-Agnostic-Secular-Humanist-Freethinker. Respectively as we move from the left to the right of the preceding list we find a diminishment of understanding of the meaning for each. Atheist being the most widely understood too Freethinker being the most misunderstood conceptually. Silverman desires that all people who place themselves in one of these categories drop the self descriptor in favor of just plain atheist. This shifting of identification strengthens the base influence. There is strength in numbers, when we place our selves in sub groups it is self defeating, by virtue it strengthens the theist, it gives the theist undo advantage. I also agree to these terms. I am an atheist, non dues paying but that is easily remedied.

American Atheist is an organization, as such it resembles other organizations. Organized is the key commonality, For this reason alone it is no wonder atheism has the appearance of a religion. Atheism has no altar, by virtue there can be no worship involved. Its the purview that counts.

None of you seem to be fully aware of just how off the atheist is with his definition(s) of what Christianity actually is. Frankly, he never even attempted to articulate his understanding of Christianity and its contemporary views. As Bryant (BT member) noticed immediately, he's telling you WHAT Christians believe.
Just one example was his claim that Christianity believes their faith to be perfect, and as such, THEY are perfect for being its adherents.
That's not only patently false, it's absurd.

I can't speak for all of contemporary Christianity and as I've stated before I personally do not define myself as a Christian. But I certainly can attest to some experience with the Christian faith.

I attended a Christian Academy for grades 1 through 9 and grew up with friends that to this day consider themselves Christians. My understanding from them (and from schooling) over the years has always been that faith is constantly seeking understanding. Because Mankind is flawed (I agree with this for non theological reasons) we could never have perfect understanding.

I do not know exactly why chickenheads like this continually make fools of themselves when arguing against religion - Christianity in particular. If I had one guess it would be because they lack any real interest in knowing what it is they are arguing against. Ultimately it's agenda driven. That agenda, based on the roots and development of american atheism, is politically motivated.
When it is this vociferous, it's very much a religion attempting to discredited another religion to achieve a social authoritative position.

This strong atheism is a total dishonest and hateful parasite on the body politic. It is not simply a absence of belief posture. It's very much on the offense against worldviews that don't align with its own. It presents itself as aligned with Science, which because of its prestige and techno success, is a good bedfellow to have (Hey, look who my authority figures are!). Part of this entails preaching to the public that religion is NOT the friend of science. The relationship between science and religion is much more nuanced and complex than the dumb-downed oversimplifications this type of athiesm espouses.

Honestly, I'm surprised at the intellectual dimness of the president of the American Atheists. Certainly I know before anyone else that I'm of very average intelligence.
Despite that fact, I wouldn't need one extra brain cell, NOT ONE, to rip this chickenhead a new one in front of his entire flock.
If this guy is Johnson's and Roy's, and Robert's leader, they're (and anyone else who takes this guy seriously) in really big trouble.


As I've stated here many times before, this type of atheism is only a social fad. It raises its head from dirty waters usually after social upheavals.
It has no vitality because it grants no human being meaning - truth or falsity of religion aside.
This is a tragic and fraudulent religion.

ant wrote:truth or falsity of religion aside.

Which means you obviously miss the point. Truth aside?

Which means you obviously miss the point. Truth aside?

I obviously do not think Christianity has been or IS bad for America.
The chickenhead's thesis is absurd.

But I'm willing to put that aside for the sake of the chickenhead himself, who does not realize he did nothing more than embarrass himself and the American Atheist Religious Association.
He needs to lick his wounds and discard his Ahistorical rubbish.

David Silverman thoroughly trounced his opponent.

Chris OConnor wrote:David Silverman thoroughly trounced his opponent.

surely you jest

No, I'm pretty serious.

y'all need some church in ya

2. Satan had me bound, Jesus lifted me,
Satan had me bound, Jesus lifted me,
Satan had me bound, Jesus lifted me,
singing glory, hallelujah,
Jesus lifted me.

youkrst wrote:y'all need some church in ya

2. Satan had me bound, Jesus lifted me,
Satan had me bound, Jesus lifted me,
Satan had me bound, Jesus lifted me,
singing glory, hallelujah,
Jesus lifted me.

I'm sure you know that there are atheist churches springing up Youkrst. You guys will have to write your own hymns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eF8x2wwLkM

There was even a satire on this idea before an actual atheist church arrived.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfel7bmFkr4

Flann 5 wrote:

youkrst wrote:y'all need some church in ya

2. Satan had me bound, Jesus lifted me,
Satan had me bound, Jesus lifted me,
Satan had me bound, Jesus lifted me,
singing glory, hallelujah,
Jesus lifted me.

I'm sure you know that there are atheist churches springing up Youkrst. You guys will have to write your own hymns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eF8x2wwLkM

There was even a satire on this idea before an actual atheist church arrived.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfel7bmFkr4

Where are these alleged churches?
They do not exist, Flann. You are delusional.
(end of discussion)