• In total there is 1 user online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 0 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 616 on Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:47 pm

Creationism vs. Evolution - A Culture Divided

Engage in conversations about worldwide religions, cults, philosophy, atheism, freethought, critical thinking, and skepticism in this forum.
Forum rules
Do not promote books in this forum. Instead, promote your books in either Authors: Tell us about your FICTION book! or Authors: Tell us about your NON-FICTION book!.

All other Community Rules apply in this and all other forums.
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6492
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2715 times
Been thanked: 2651 times
Contact:
Australia

Unread post

Chris OConnor wrote:Fascinating find, Robert. I'd be interested in seeing a response from Stahrwe on this. Did the city really exist and scholars have it wrong?
Thomas Paine says in Genesis xiv., the writer gives an account of Lot being taken prisoner and that when the account of Lot being taken came to Abraham, that he pursued them unto Dan. (ver. 14.). The Book of judges (chapter xviii. ver. 27) says the Danites "came unto Laish to a people that were quiet and secure, and they smote them with the edge of the sword [the Bible is filled with murder] and burned the city with fire; and they built a city, (ver. 28,) and dwelt therein, and [ver. 29,] they called the name of the city Dan, after the name of Dan, their father; howbeit the name of the city was Laish at the first.”

This account of the Danites taking possession of Laish and changing it to Dan, is placed in the book of Judges immediately after the death of Samson. The death of Samson is said to have happened B.C. 1120 and that of Moses B.C. 1451; and, therefore, according to the historical arrangement, the place was not called Dan till 331 years after the death of Moses.
User avatar
stahrwe

1I - PLATINUM CONTIBUTOR
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4898
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:26 am
14
Location: Florida
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 315 times

Unread post

Interbane,

One of the things I love about Booktalk.org is the number of times participants misunderstand simple posts and react inappropriately to them.

My comment about the Selfish Gene referred to comments in the Booktalk.org forum on same, not my complaints about it. I have nothing to explain, just go to the forum and read the posts.

I have not problem with Dick's book, I find it an enjoyable comedy.

TTFN, I have to get ready for Church.
User avatar
stahrwe

1I - PLATINUM CONTIBUTOR
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4898
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:26 am
14
Location: Florida
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 315 times

Unread post

And I care about what Thomas Paine says because ...?
User avatar
stahrwe

1I - PLATINUM CONTIBUTOR
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4898
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:26 am
14
Location: Florida
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 315 times

Unread post

Perhaps Mr. Tulip would be so good as to provide a link to Thomas Paines's writings as a primary source instead of a link to a biased blogger lamely searching for backup to his or her stupidity. I will answer when the primary source is provided.
User avatar
CWT36
Sophomore
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:04 pm
14
Location: Riverhead, Long Island
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 6 times
Contact:

Unread post

stahrwe wrote:And I care about what Thomas Paine says because ...?
For one, because of the key role he played in the founding of our country. His ability to, through his writing, coalesce the regular ordinary people into a unified force towards independence. And while that may have nothing to do with his commentary on the Bible, it does establish him as a man that deserves the respect of every one of us Americans.
-Colin

"Do not tell fish stories where the people know you; but particularly, don't tell them where they know the fish." -Mark Twain
User avatar
Frank 013
Worthy of Worship
Posts: 2021
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:55 pm
18
Location: NY
Has thanked: 548 times
Been thanked: 171 times

Unread post

Star
Perhaps Mr. Tulip would be so good as to provide a link to Thomas Paines's writings as a primary source instead of a link to a biased blogger lamely searching for backup to his or her stupidity. I will answer when the primary source is provided.
First of all (with all due respect to Mr. Paine) it doesn’t matter who wrote the above information, it only matters that some of what is written in the first 5 books of the old testament happened after the death of your claimed writer… clearly making the claim impossible.

I am glad I had a vacation from this idiocy…

Later
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6492
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2715 times
Been thanked: 2651 times
Contact:
Australia

Unread post

Frank 013 wrote:
Star: "Perhaps Mr. Tulip would be so good as to provide a link to Thomas Paines's writings as a primary source instead of a link to a biased blogger lamely searching for backup to his or her stupidity. I will answer when the primary source is provided."
First of all (with all due respect to Mr. Paine) it doesn’t matter who wrote the above information, it only matters that some of what is written in the first 5 books of the old testament happened after the death of your claimed writer… clearly making the claim impossible. I am glad I had a vacation from this idiocy…Later
There is an excellent summary at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documentary_hypothesis of why it is simply false to claim that Moses wrote the Pentateuch. For example, just to scratch the surface, Deuteronomy 34:5-10 describes the death of Moses, so obviously he did not write that bit, unless Stahrwe thinks perhaps he came back from the dead? Genesis 36:31-43 gives a list of the kings of Edom before those kings ever lived.

Give creationists enough rope and they will hang themselves.
User avatar
stahrwe

1I - PLATINUM CONTIBUTOR
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4898
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:26 am
14
Location: Florida
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 315 times

Unread post

RT,

your link is to the documentary hypothesis. I am famliliar with the various objections to the Mosaic authorship. I did not ask for that I asked for a link to TP's writing as a primary source. That should be easy enough for you to come up with.

As for the objection regarding Moses writing of his own death and things which happened in the future, it's called prophecy. Moses wrote about a great many things that would happen in the future. So that argument bites.

Oh, and BTW, Moses did make an appearance after he died.

And one more thing, Disney made the movie Song of the South. My discussion of it was in the context of a discussion on censorship.
User avatar
stahrwe

1I - PLATINUM CONTIBUTOR
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4898
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:26 am
14
Location: Florida
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 315 times

Unread post

Frank,

we missed you too.
User avatar
stahrwe

1I - PLATINUM CONTIBUTOR
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4898
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:26 am
14
Location: Florida
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 315 times

Heme synthesis

Unread post

http://sickle.bwh.harvard.edu/hbsynthesis.html

Heme Biosynthesis.
The sythesis of heme is a complex process that involves multiple enzymatic steps.
The process begins in the mitochondrion with
1) the condensation of succinyl-CoA and glycine to form 5-aminolevulinic acid.
2-n) A series of steps in the cytoplasm produce coproporphrynogen III, which
n+1) re-enters the mitochondrion.
n+2+n) The final enzymatic steps produce heme.

How many steps are there? The summary only shows four, but in two of the four multiple steps are referenced.

Not only that, but Heme is no good without Globin. Which I presume has an equally complex systhesis.

And for us to be able to live, the heme thingy needs to couple up with the globin thingy to make a red blood cell.

Oh, and the article says that fetal hemoglobin is different at different stages of gestation. And all of this just happened through trial and error? You know, that statement isn't right is it? It wasn't trial and error because that implies an intelligence which recognizes when an error has occurred. In a random process, errors are not corrected for and may recur.

Maybe I'm a Koolaid drinker but at least I'm not in Abeilene eating ice cream.
Post Reply

Return to “Religion & Philosophy”