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Creationism vs. Evolution - A Culture Divided

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geo

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Re: Creationism vs. Evolution - A Culture Divided

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stahrwe wrote:
Interesting question about the animals worshiping God is as follows:
If evolution is correct, and men share a common ancestry with animals, then animals should evidence recognizable evidence of religious practices.
I agree it's an interesting question. But it's my understanding that belief in deities probably came fairly late in our evolutionary development and very likely is an offshoot of language. Some scientists have speculated that language may have been a simple byproduct of having a large brain, but there is no question it has given us a huge advantage over other species. Dawkins has speculated that our species has come to depend on the accumulated experience of previous generations, which is advantageous, but it also carries with it a predilection towards prolonging superstitious beliefs. So we are wired to come to beliefs easily and also wired to pass on beliefs from generation to generation. In particular, children are taught from an early age to obey their parents and so are especially prone to indoctrination.

I'm sure I'm oversimplifying all of this, but my point is that humans are probably unique in the animal kingdom in developing religious beliefs. And this is largely due to our advanced language skills.
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stahrwe

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Re: Creationism vs. Evolution - A Culture Divided

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geo wrote:
stahrwe wrote:
Interesting question about the animals worshiping God is as follows:
If evolution is correct, and men share a common ancestry with animals, then animals should evidence recognizable evidence of religious practices.
I agree it's an interesting question. But it's my understanding that belief in deities probably came fairly late in our evolutionary development and very likely is an offshoot of language. Some scientists have speculated that language may have been a simple byproduct of having a large brain, but there is no question it has given us a huge advantage over other species. Dawkins has speculated that our species has come to depend on the accumulated experience of previous generations, which is advantageous, but it also carries with it a predilection towards prolonging superstitious beliefs. So we are wired to come to beliefs easily and also wired to pass on beliefs from generation to generation. In particular, children are taught from an early age to obey their parents and so are especially prone to indoctrination.

I'm sure I'm oversimplifying all of this, but my point is that humans are probably unique in the animal kingdom in developing religious beliefs. And this is largely due to our advanced language skills.

I find it interesting that a large brain is necessary for religious development, at least as posited by Dawkins.

I hope that my preference for Stein over Dawkins won't result in my banishment from the discussion. Once upon a time I believed in evolution but I have since decided that there are just too many logical compromises one must make in order to sustain that belief. If you will excuse me for a moment I am going to look for my lost electron. It disappeared as I was measuring its mass.
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Re: Creationism vs. Evolution - A Culture Divided

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stahrwe wrote: I find it interesting that a large brain is necessary for religious development, at least as posited by Dawkins.

I hope that my preference for Stein over Dawkins won't result in my banishment from the discussion. Once upon a time I believed in evolution but I have since decided that there are just too many logical compromises one must make in order to sustain that belief. If you will excuse me for a moment I am going to look for my lost electron. It disappeared as I was measuring its mass.
I think you may have it backwards, but anyway what kind of compromises do you make to sustain a "belief" in evolution?

Edit note: removed "my friend" because it sounded patronizing. Not what I was going for.
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Re: Creationism vs. Evolution - A Culture Divided

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stahrwe wrote:
You state that animals do not disrepect each other, treat each other with contempt, or bring on self-destruction.

Animals steal food from each other, watch seagulls.
Lemmings blindly follow leaders off cliffs.
Yes, but they do not know any better. Again, are we as advanced as we like to give ourselves credit for. You kinda proove my point. We still cannot get over our base instincts.

lol...this thread is a blast from the past!!!
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Re: Creationism vs. Evolution - A Culture Divided

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geo wrote:
stahrwe wrote: I find it interesting that a large brain is necessary for religious development, at least as posited by Dawkins.

I hope that my preference for Stein over Dawkins won't result in my banishment from the discussion. Once upon a time I believed in evolution but I have since decided that there are just too many logical compromises one must make in order to sustain that belief. If you will excuse me for a moment I am going to look for my lost electron. It disappeared as I was measuring its mass.
I think you may have it backwards, but anyway what kind of compromises do you make to sustain a "belief" in evolution?

Edit note: removed "my friend" because it sounded patronizing. Not what I was going for.
Mr. Editor
Thank you for your concern, but I am a big boy and honestly took "my friend" as a friendly informality.

As far as the discussion topic is concedrned I would ask the following questions:

1) I drop a weight from the top of a mile tall mast on a sailboat. How far has the weight traveled when it hits the deck?

2) I measure the momentum of an electon to a high degree of precision. How is that possible when I am in Florida and the electron might be in New York?

3) Is Shrodenger's cat dead or alive?

4) What happened before the big bang?
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1) I drop a weight from the top of a mile tall mast on a sailboat. How far has the weight traveled when it hits the deck?

Relative to the place it was dropped from, perhaps a mile. That's a mighty tall mast however. Relative to the sun, perhaps a few miles. Relative to the center of the universe, perhaps many miles.

2) I measure the momentum of an electon to a high degree of precision. How is that possible when I am in Florida and the electron might be in New York?

Remotely controlled instrumentation?

3) Is Shrodenger's cat dead or alive?

Alive?

4) What happened before the big bang?

Last I heard it was more like the big bounce. Where before the 'bang', there was a crunch. I'm sure we'll have some alterations to the theory within the near future.

A degree of unknown in all these answers seems far more realistic than to think we know the nature of the universe for certain.

Stah: "Once upon a time I believed in evolution but I have since decided that there are just too many logical compromises one must make in order to sustain that belief."

I've been wondering how the late pope John Paul reconciled religion and evolution. At least his science counsel recognized evolution as fact. However, you're right that there are too many contradictions. If evolution has all the evidence and is a fact, that leaves religion high and dry.

The Pope's acknowledgement was welcomed as a significant advance by scientists, even though some said it had come late. "It will allow many Catholic scientists, who have been engaged for some time in research on human evolution, to continue their work without any censure or difficulty," said Francesco Barone, a leading Italian scientific philosopher. --Pope accepts theory of evolution - Reuters, 24 October 1996
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Re: Creationism vs. Evolution - A Culture Divided

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stahrwe wrote:Mr. Editor
Thank you for your concern, but I am a big boy and honestly took "my friend" as a friendly informality.

As far as the discussion topic is concedrned I would ask the following questions:

1) I drop a weight from the top of a mile tall mast on a sailboat. How far has the weight traveled when it hits the deck?

2) I measure the momentum of an electon to a high degree of precision. How is that possible when I am in Florida and the electron might be in New York?

3) Is Shrodenger's cat dead or alive?

4) What happened before the big bang?
As a writer I endlessly nitpick over my words. It's a form of OCD, I think.

Science works to shed light on the nature of the universe. It would be foolhardy to claim we have all the answers. It's a work in progress, but in some areas we have made much progress. We can predict the path of a comet or planet to a very high degree of accuracy. Many diseases like polio and bubonic plague have been virtually wiped out. I have heard it said that there is as much evidence to support evolution as there is for the existence of atoms. It's easy to see why those with religious views don't typically have a problem with the existence of atoms, but evolution does and should change one's worldview. It's an amazing, wondrous process that has been corroborated in countless ways and across many scientific disciplines. As theories go, it's as solid as they come, although some of the individual mechanisms are still being formulated and discussed. There is no absolutely certainty in science.
-Geo
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Re: Creationism vs. Evolution - A Culture Divided

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geo wrote:
There is no absolutely certainty in science.
And this is why I respect science. Even with mounds of credible evidence that has been tested and tested...we still admit we do not have all the answers.

Whereas religion claim absolute truth with nothing but a desire to want it to be so.
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Re: Creationism vs. Evolution - A Culture Divided

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Mr. Pessimistic wrote:
geo wrote:
There is no absolutely certainty in science.
And this is why I respect science. Even with mounds of credible evidence that has been tested and tested...we still admit we do not have all the answers.

Whereas religion claim absolute truth with nothing but a desire to want it to be so.
Mr. Pessimistic,
Is you Avatar Rorshack (sp?)

Do you happen to know what Buzz Aldrin ate on the moon?
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Re: Creationism vs. Evolution - A Culture Divided

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stahrwe wrote:
Mr. Pessimistic wrote:
geo wrote:
There is no absolutely certainty in science.
And this is why I respect science. Even with mounds of credible evidence that has been tested and tested...we still admit we do not have all the answers.

Whereas religion claim absolute truth with nothing but a desire to want it to be so.
Mr. Pessimistic,
Is you Avatar Rorshack (sp?)

Do you happen to know what Buzz Aldrin ate on the moon?

YES! Rorschac has always been my favorite since Watchmen came out in the 80's. I modeled a Dungeons and Dragons charater after him. Sick bastard that loves to kick the ass of dopes. My hero.

I do not know...but I hope this is not a lead in to a lunar conspiracy thing!
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