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Creationism vs. Evolution - A Culture Divided

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johnson1010
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So the bible that most of America has is... errant.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Frank 013
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Star
As time goes by, language and word meanings change.
So you are saying that the word for ostrich transformed (or dare I say it) evolved?

Do you have evidence of this?
Star
The various translators are serious about their work and generally, when they are in doubt about a translation, they will include a comment so that additional research can be done.
Is this the case with the word ostrich? I have never seen such a “comment” and I find it hard to believe that the ostrich could be mixed up with some other bird.

Why didn’t some one just ask the Jews… you know ask a simple question like… ”What are the birds that you can’t eat?”

It seems to me that this would be an easy one to get right, animal names do not generally change over time unless new sub-species are discovered or you look to another language. So unless you have some evidence that this is the case with the word ostrich I still say that Ostrich does not belong among the fliers and bats are not birds... no matter how you twist this it is still wrong.
Star
In the case of the bat-ostrich-bird discussion, I have shown that the Hebrew word used in the passage refers to flyers thereby including all flying birds, bats and flying insects.


You have shown this is a possibility… but during my own research I found that was not a steadfast conclusion… I even posted an apologist statement of the question at hand which included both the words “may” and “possibly” in the paragraph regarding that position... meaning that they were not positive that the word means "generic flying animal".
Star
I cannot account for why a few translations include ostrich while others call it a different bird.


What was the other bird? Was it a penguin? Perhaps a rhea, or an emu? Hell with as screwed up as the bible is I would not be surprised to find it was a skunk.

Again I ask you, where do you find this other translation?
Star
Perhaps that is one of Satan’s little tricks to get us arguing about that instead of the really important subject of where your soul is going to spend eternity.
This is not only a terrible cop out, but it also confirms that the bible is not inherent. Of course you dismiss human error and the ignorance of the writers entirely but those are much more likely reasons for the bible’s many flaws.

Now try looking at the bigger picture and see just how flawed the bible truly is. It is so flawed that it cannot be the authority on any subject.

Its myth is sadly lacking as entertainment.

It offers moral examples that are vile and cruel.

Its assertions about the earth and universe are flat out wrong.

Its heroes, miracles and major events are non-confirmable, or completely different from the historical record and archeological findings. They are most likely fictional.

It lies about the effectiveness of prayer.

It makes blanket assertions of people places and things that are not confirmable… and most likely do not exist… such as god, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, Haven, hell, the Holy Ghost and the soul.

Do you have any credible evidence that god has kept up his part of the barging and taken anyone into heaven? Is there any plausible evidence that he has kept his promise even once?

Finally I don’t even think that the bible is a good source or authority of spiritual matters, it is too intertwined with false dogma and myth. Humans were very ignorant in those times, they lacked knowledge in every conceivable area… why would spirituality be any different?

Later
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
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Frank 013,

re: ostrich once again,

If you think that the atheist/God discussion can get intense, you should see when apolgoists get together. Of course there is not going to be universality of opinion regarding a controversial subject. IF there were, there would be no point in it. Want to read some real gizzard rippers, google dispensationalism and read some of the debates about it.

100 years from now, you and I will both know the truth. If you're right, who cares. If I'm right, I don't want you saying, "I wish he'd fought harder for his position."


Have a safe trip.
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Frank 013
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Star
100 years from now, you and I will both know the truth. If you're right, who cares. If I'm right, I don't want you saying, "I wish he'd fought harder for his position."
If I am right than you and countless others are wasting time, resources, and mental energy that could be better served elsewhere, in addition the harmful dogma of religions' continues to separate the populace and cause untold death and misery across the globe.
Star
Have a safe trip
Thanks

Later
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Star: "100 years from now, you and I will both know the truth. If you're right, who cares. If I'm right, I don't want you saying, "I wish he'd fought harder for his position."

Actually, there isn't much of a debate any more. There may seem to be from your perspective, but the dust has settled and religion is seen as false by brilliant minds the world over. Something I find humorous is that since you still think there is room for your rationalizations to convert nonbelievers, you throw around Pascal's wager in a multitude of forms. You can't win at roulette if the casino is shut down.
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Actually, the debate is not over, there never was one to begin with. Atheism and evolution will be a sad footnote in history. Christopher Hitchens will be laughed at and Dawkins will be forgotten.

Why?

28 years ago when my wife and I joined the church we are still attending, one of the young men there was going off to college. He completed his degree and went on to seminary. His heart was burdened for communist China. Over the next 2 1/2 decades he became fluent in Mandaran and made frequent trips into Communist China risking his freedom by training locals to become pastors. He was constantly followed and harrassed by officials. His journal makes fascinating reading and we hope to publish it some day. It includes his witness to actual, gosh darn, real in your face miracles. Imagine that.

But now, things in China are changing. The government is welcoming Christians to come in and set up churches. Why? I do not wish to violate any copyrights so I won't post the story here but I am providing the link so you can read it on your own. It details how China is turning its back on atheism. It is from the Chicago Tribune so it is a secular publication.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... ory?page=1


Jesus in China: Christianity's rapid rise
The rise of Christianity is reshaping the officially atheist nation, its politics and the way many Chinese view the world. The Tribune's Evan Osnos reports from Beijing and the countryside.
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johnson1010
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It includes his witness to actual, gosh darn, real in your face miracles. Imagine that.
huh. Imagine that indeed.

yes, a man who's life is dominated to the worship of an imaginary father figure, who has dedicated his life to the exercise of spreading this fascination with fairy tales has witnessed ordinary events and then claimed them to be the work of the same imaginary daddy that drives him.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Interbane

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Star: "Actually, the debate is not over, there never was one to begin with. Atheism and evolution will be a sad footnote in history."

Unfortunately for you, this is the opposite of what will happen. Atheism is on the rise across the world except in the countries that have repressed Christianity. The masses have to have their opium before they realize it doesn't work. The belief system will most definitely sweep across China, I don't disagree with this. It is a contagious belief system. However, once the idiocy of it's contents becomes discussed at large, the Chinese will realize as the Americans and other countries have, that it's a man made fairy tale. Atheism will then increase by education, rather than government enforcement. It is the education that is key, not oppression.
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stahrwe

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Interbane,

Thanks for that I needed a good laugh this afternoon.

Can't play anymore for now boys. I have to preach tonight. A dear friend died last night and his funeral is in another state so our pastor is out of town and I'm filling in.
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stahrwe

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tn Or “owl.” The Hebrew term בַּת הַיַּעֲנָה (bat hayya’anah) may refer to some species of owl (cf. KJV “owl”; NEB “desert-owl”; NIV “horned owl”) but is sometimes taken as “ostrich” (so ASV, NAB, NASB, NRSV, NLT).

http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Deu&chapter=14#n21
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