Since the discussion is devolving to a focus on a few points let me expand the criticism of the premier of COSMOS 2014.
1) NDT incorrectly stated that Uranus was unknown to the ancients. That is NOT correct. The ancients knew of Uranus but did not classify it as a planet.
2) The representation f the asteroid belt was grossly exaggerated. It was all about the visual instead of Science.
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Cosmos ----why again?
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- johnson1010
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Re: Cosmos ----why again?
the ancient greeks knew exactly what to do with uranus.
ba-bump bump, KISH!
ba-bump bump, KISH!
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Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?
Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?
Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
-Guillermo Del Torro
Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?
Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?
Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
- stahrwe
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Re: Cosmos ----why again?
Since some are focused Bruno, I decided to fact check NDT/COSMOS on something which could be checked. It is unfortunate that records about Bruno's trial were destroyed but that is not true about his time in England. That time was referenced in COSMOS and the 'truth' once again is different than presented in the show.
I am tempted to end this with QED as far as COSMOS being untrustworthy, at least with respect to Bruno, but there is much more in the article which shreds the COSMOS show's presentation and I think the Group will take this on as a project.What is relevant is the corollary assumption that Bruno was in possession ofadvanced views on cosmology by the time he arrived in England and that his profound and daring teaching was lost on audiences who were unqualied to appreciate it.The truth is,as we shall see below,that in 1583 Bruno was only beginning to formulate his natural philosophy,and the reputation he had hitherto garnered was that of an expert in mnemonics with unsettled religious views.Thus,his audience had little reason to take his rather abstruse mixture ofcosmological,metaphysical,and magical ideas as the harbinger ofa profoundly new natural philosophy—especially in view ofhis contemptuous attitude toward mathematics and astronomy and his unacknowledged borrowings from other authors.Upon his arrival in England,in fact,insofar as cosmology and natural philosophy were concerned,Bruno was as much a learner as he was a teacher,something that his haughty rhetoric tends to obscure.Bruno’s famed rhetoric—which portrays himselfas the sole bearer ofenlightenment and wisdom,and anyone who fails to comprehend (and admire) him as both a pedant and an enemy oftruth—is long overdue for thorough scrutiny.
Giordano Bruno in England, Revisited
Mordechai Feingold
Huntington Library Quarterly
Vol. 67, No. 3 (September 2004) (pp. 329-346)
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1
where n are natural numbers.
Sum n = -1/12
n=1
where n are natural numbers.
- Interbane
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Re: Cosmos ----why again?
I don't know about excusing the production company, you're right. If you have the resources, do your homework. They should have historians on staff. I'll excuse NDT though, he's not an historian as far as I know.Yes, you are wrong for excusing shoddy historical reporting by a brilliant scientist and a mega production company.
I'm sure there are plenty of mistakes. The world will be a better place for your efforts.I am tempted to end this with QED as far as COSMOS being untrustworthy, at least with respect to Bruno, but there is much more in the article which shreds the COSMOS show's presentation and I think the Group will take this on as a project.
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- LanDroid
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Re: Cosmos ----why again?
No. Again, no matter how much we'd like to spin-doctor it, and even though Cosmos gave the benefit of the doubt, we cannot know the reasons why Bruno was killed because the trial records have been lost.stahrwe wrote:The show include one brief reference to religious heresies Bruno was convicted of at the end of the segment on Bruno. If the show was being fair the time ratio should have been reversed. The religious heresies Bruno was involved with would have been focused on with only an aside mention of the science.
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Re: Cosmos ----why again?
Many of their books were banned.Ant said Copernicus, Kepler, Stigliola, Digges, Maestlin, Rothmann, and Brahe.
.... NONE of the aforementioned men were pursued by the Inquisition for holding views contrary to the most common held at the time.
The killing of Bruno is not justifiable; the Catholic church apologized for it (sort of) hundreds of years later. Obviously the activities of the Inquisition were not conducive to freedom of thought. The term "thought police" does not go far enough, more accurately "thought police, censor, prosecutor, judge, jury, torturer, and executioner".Ant said As to a thought police discouraging freedom of thought?
Well, tell that to the prestigious universities at the time and their intellectual students. It would be interesting bringing them all back from the dead to ask them - "Did anyone keep you from thinking freely while you were at university?"
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Re: Cosmos ----why again?
1) Then why did COSMOS emphasize Bruno's cosmology as the reason? If the show was fair it would have given equal time to Bruno's religious heresies.
2) While the trial records were destroyed there were episodes in Bruno' s life that can be fact checked and when I checked them, the representation by COSMOS was FALSE.
I don't intend to be stuck on the flypaper of tis issue here. I have presented reasonable EVIDENCE that COSMOS misrepresented events in the life of Bruno. I have also shown that COSMOS was wrong in a number of instances in the science it presented. It was obvious that NDT idolized Sagan. I believe that is the problem. NDT wants to be the Sagan of this generation. In order to do that this COSMOS must be better than the one Sagan did. NDT seems to equate 'better' with 'spectacular.'
2) While the trial records were destroyed there were episodes in Bruno' s life that can be fact checked and when I checked them, the representation by COSMOS was FALSE.
I don't intend to be stuck on the flypaper of tis issue here. I have presented reasonable EVIDENCE that COSMOS misrepresented events in the life of Bruno. I have also shown that COSMOS was wrong in a number of instances in the science it presented. It was obvious that NDT idolized Sagan. I believe that is the problem. NDT wants to be the Sagan of this generation. In order to do that this COSMOS must be better than the one Sagan did. NDT seems to equate 'better' with 'spectacular.'
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1
where n are natural numbers.
Sum n = -1/12
n=1
where n are natural numbers.
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Re: Cosmos ----why again?
If by 'wrong' you mean 'used metaphorical language', sure. Though you might be right about Bruno, the science issues weren't actually issues.I have also shown that COSMOS was wrong in a number of instances in the science it presented.
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Re: Cosmos ----why again?
Stahrwe, here is a version for you. Watch it and be fulfilled, and stop pretending to know science.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmdGFWS0m54
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmdGFWS0m54
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Re: Cosmos ----why again?
Tyson himself says the segment is not anti-religion, but anti-dogma.the 'logical' conclusion is that COSMOS included the Bruno episode as an attack on the Church.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/ ... nds-cosmos. . . But at the same time, and unlike many science champions (such as the biologist Richard Dawkins), Tyson is quite careful not to pit science against religion. For instance, the first episode of the new Cosmos tells the story of Giordano Bruno, an Italian monk who was persecuted and ultimately burned at the stake by the Inquisition over his ideas about the universe, including the notion that there are an infinite number of suns and worlds beyond our own. Some have argued that to tell this story is in effect to pick a fight over science and religion, but Tyson counters that "Giordano Bruno himself was a deeply religious person. In fact, you could argue that he was more religious than the people prosecuting him."
The stance of Cosmos, Tyson emphasizes, is not anti-religion but anti-dogma: "Any time you have a doctrine where that is the truth that you assert, and that what you call the truth is unassailable, you've got doctrine, you've got dogma on your hands. And so Cosmos is...an offering of science, and a reminder that dogma does not advance science; it actually regresses it."
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