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Coronavirus

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DWill

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Re: Coronavirus

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Interbane wrote:
Dwill wrote:My first question about the article presented by the anti-vaccine organization Children's Health Defense was, who are the authors?
It's a quack site for quackerjacks like KS.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/children ... h-defense/

https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/04/01/an ... racy-14681
Quackerjack wrote:What, no Chatty Cathies? No name-calling? You guys aren't living down to your reputation.
We don't name call. :spam:
I'd like to look more closely at the data manipulation in the Children's Health Defense "paper" that KS believes is such a slam dunk. The paper's main claim is that more like 15,000 U.S.deaths can be attributed to covid-19, not over 150,000. The claims are not easy for me to untangle, but the basis is that CHD ignores the fact of excess deaths during the period that the rest of world calls the pandemic. You can find information on excess deaths in dozens of places. The "nothing to see here" approach of the CHD tries to prove that pneumonia deaths are greater than covid in all population segments. So, why is everyone reacting with such panic to a covid epidemic but not to a pneumonia epidemic? A question for the CHD to answer would be, why then have pneumonia deaths risen so sharply? Why have they accounted for so many of the excess deaths? But The CHD doesn't address that. They want to confuse the issue by claiming that pneumonia is separate from covid-19, when in fact covid-19 typically brings on pneumonia--but not the same pneumonia that we can vaccinate against.

The paper tells us that the gross overcount in covid deaths is all due to CDC guidance released last April, which has resulted in other causes of death to be termed covid deaths. What practice are other countries using? If not CDC's, are their lower counts then not comparable to ours? Would they be much higher if they conformed to CDC? That is unlikely because the associated burdens of the disease are also lower in countries with lower deaths per 100,000--the stress on ICUs, mortuaries, and medical supplies. CDC practice has not created an illusion of a serious viral disease problem in the U.S. The problem is real.

When almost every credible source you go to judges that covid-19 deaths are probably underreported, the CHD claim that covid deaths are really 90% fewer than the numbers we're going by faces long odds. The argument they make in the paper trying to prove that doesn't cut it. They are looking down the road at the vaccine for covid-19 and thinking the best way to lobby against vaccination is to deny the existence of the pandemic.
Last edited by DWill on Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ant

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Re: Coronavirus

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Robert Tulip wrote:
ant wrote:When I said " only" it was meant as sarcasm, Robert.

And you took that sarcasm and made it a strawman.

See how silly you look now?
Well done Mr Trump

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -sarcastic

Oh, stop, Robert.
Donald Trump did not invent sarcasm, nor should you blame him for mine.
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Interbane

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Re: Coronavirus

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Trump could cure cancer and solve global famine and there would be people who would criticize him for doing it.
I'd worship him eternally. What kind of miracle would that be! I mean, he has the mental capacity of a 4th grader. Imagine if such an imbecile managed to cure cancer. Surely a sign from God.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
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ant

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Re: Coronavirus

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Interbane wrote:
Trump could cure cancer and solve global famine and there would be people who would criticize him for doing it.
I'd worship him eternally. What kind of miracle would that be! I mean, he has the mental capacity of a 4th grader. Imagine if such an imbecile managed to cure cancer. Surely a sign from God.

I don't think you'd have the time with all that self worshiping on your daily agenda
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Re: Coronavirus

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ant wrote: Trump could cure cancer and solve global famine and there would be people who would criticize him for doing it.


If Trump cured cancer and solved global famine, it would be completely uncharacteristic of the kind of person we've come to know the last four years. But, hey, if he did accomplish these things, many of us would certainly have to reformulate our opinions of him.
ant wrote:I am not wired for bandwagon riding.
I am the most objective person on BT within the context of the current political climate.
I don't see it myself. But I'm rather curious, what objective criteria do you use to come to this self-evaluation?
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Re: Coronavirus

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ant wrote:Oh, stop, Robert.
Donald Trump did not invent sarcasm, nor should you blame him for mine.
This is interesting as an example of debating process.

You come here to spew baseless right wing propaganda, so I have no reason to accept your insults. Now you are claiming to be using sarcasm, and calling me stupid for failing to see it, when clearly you are just lying to cover up your stupidity, exactly as Trump did when he justified his moronic comments about injecting bleach to cure the virus. So I do not in the slightest accept that your claim that the Nazi reading of Camus is the only interpretation was meant sarcastically, as you had clear reason to make the comment seriously (but mistakenly), as it was personally demeaning to me, suggesting my input was ignorant. Like Trump, you had no discernible reason for sarcasm, until you found sarcasm a feeble excuse when I pointed out that your statement was false.

What I find offensive is that I hoped people would engage in a discussion of the contemporary relevance of The Plague, but you successfully deflected that by derailing the point with your initial off topic Nazi claim, followed up by your series of baseless aggressive insults.

Your false claim now that I am somehow "blaming Trump for your sarcasm" is venal, since you know full well it is a direct lie, aimed only to mislead readers, insult me and cover up your stupidity. I am pointing out that you are just following the Trump playbook of distorting facts, when your alleged sarcasm is nothing but a post hoc desperate excuse in order to deny your factual mistake. How you spin that is admirable as an example of the dark arts, but little more.
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think I've found the stake to put through the heart of the Covid scam. I'll repeat the headline:

CDC inflates Covid deaths TEN TIMES over actual numbers
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news ... reopening/

They say that Wuhan deaths in the U.S. will reach 300,000 by December. So, by TRUE reckoning, actual deaths will be 30,000. That's less than seasonal flu, but we don't put on masks each year for that. And they're not masks, they're muzzles, to silence you. The masks are filthy disease incubators. Throw them away. Shout down those who say you have to wear them.

It's amazing that people are still going along with the scam. Like with the "manmade climate change" scam. The core of that fearmongering campaign is "rising sea levels." But if you go to people who view the world realistically, insurance companies, they say there's no rising sea level. They've studied it because they might have to make payouts. And what they've found is subsidence. 80% of the world's population lives along coastlines...sandy soils, islands built out of landfill and dredgings. Trillions of tons of development pushing down on soft ground, so the ground is sinking. And shameless Al Gore with his gaggle of carbon credit bankers tries to make you think that you're going to drown because you exhale carbon. The climate freaks are driving children to suicide with scary lies. I'd hate to have that on me.

A video about subsidence:

Tracking California’s Sinking Coast From Space: Implications for Sea-Level Rise & Climate Fraud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK4UcUH ... e=youtu.be

Note how the same tactics are used by climate alarmists and Covid alarmists. Both groups want dissenters silenced, even punished by the courts for dissenting. Both want to spend infinite amounts of money on their causes. Both want control over our lives. Control freaks. Fascists.
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DWill

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Re: Coronavirus

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ant wrote: There is something inherently wrong with bandwagons and Trump Derangement Syndrome is by far the biggest bandwagon in modern day history.

Group-think does not allow for objectivity.
I am not wired for bandwagon riding.
I am the most objective person on BT within the context of the current political climate.

I think Chris is also closer to objectivity than any of you, but he has chosen to steer clear of the subject.
There have been at least four previous "derangement syndromes," so to claim that something unprecedented is happening with TDS is far-fetched. First there were "Clinton Crazies" (Bill), then Bush Derangement Syndrome, Obama Derangement Syndrome, and Clinton Derangement Syndrome (Hillary). No doubt Biden will get his if elected.

Just to say, ant, you come across to me as quite partisan. Have you ever shared with us global denunciation of Republicans? I can't recall it. But your drumbeat against Democrats--all Democrats--is constant. The rest of us don't vilify Republicans the way you do Democrats. You claim not to back Donald Trump based on not voting for him in '16, but your current neutrality isn't convincing and you should just own your preference for him. You make only the mildest of criticisms of him, while you pillory Biden for every, relatively little, thing.

Whenever I hear someone claim to be the most objective, I go on alert.
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Re: Coronavirus

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Is it "Trump-derangement-syndrome" or a a natural, rational response to a president, who regularly violates many of our social and democratic norms, who regularly and pathologically makes false statements, who reveals his own hypocrisy and narcissism and small-mindedness at every turn, whose history of corruption and incompetence is in plain view? The guy who ran a sham university and ultimately had to pay a $25 million settlement, the man who tried to blackmail the Ukranian president into finding dirt on his political opponent, the guy who unabashedly attacks and obstructs law enforcement and slanders witnesses? And whose response to the Coronoavirus pandemic has been criminally negligent and incompetent?
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DWill

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Re: Coronavirus

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KindaSkolarly wrote:I think I've found the stake to put through the heart of the Covid scam. I'll repeat the headline:

CDC inflates Covid deaths TEN TIMES over actual numbers
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news ... reopening/

They say that Wuhan deaths in the U.S. will reach 300,000 by December. So, by TRUE reckoning, actual deaths will be 30,000. That's less than seasonal flu, but we don't put on masks each year for that. And they're not masks, they're muzzles, to silence you. The masks are filthy disease incubators. Throw them away. Shout down those who say you have to wear them.
Children's Health Defense is a pseudo-science anti-vax organization. It's not surprising that its claims in the "paper" it published on its website are bullcrap. It's those pesky excess deaths. How are they best explained--by a sudden surge in pneumonia, by a bumper year for seasonal flu? No, the trail leads right to the door of a novel coronavirus with a vicious community spread.

Much to the contrary of what CHD and you claim, the excess death numbers support an undercount of covid deaths. Over the three month period of Mr. 1-May 30, there were 122,000 deaths above what would be expected. That is 28% higher than the reported covid-19 deaths over the same period. Conclusion: some covid deaths were not recorded as such.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamain ... le/2767980
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