Me: So all of that leads me to conclude that human morality had its beginnings long before we had ideas about things like gods and religions.Mad: Your survey doesn't seem, to me, to indicate as much. It certainly indicates that certain behaviors have their origin earlier than the development of religion, and even that they took on instinctually patterned forms before hand. But as I've argued above, morality isn't simply a pattern of behavior -- it's a codification of concepts and imperatives that form a reference point for voluntary action.You asked, and I answered. I didn't imagine you would agree with the answer. Even though you seem to implicitly endorse it while disagreeing with it. I did not say that morality was "simply a pattern of behavior." I did say that what we have come to regard as human morality has its beginnings in such patterns of behavior. I think there's good support for that position. Now if you want to have a discussion about the codification of moral codes and how and why that happens, that's a related but different subject. Personally, I don't think such a discussion is likely to be productive since you and I obviously come at these issues from widely different perspectives and seem to spend most of our time talking past one another.So, with that, I will bid you a cordial adieu.George http://www.godlessinamerica.com"Godlessness is not about denying the existence of nonsensical beings. It is the starting point for living life without them."Godless in America by George A. Ricker