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Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In 
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Post Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In



Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:12 pm
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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
Very, very impressed with the band of early followers getting new converts. The numbers are impressive for a time without mass media.


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Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:55 pm
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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
The "God's secret army" sub chapter is pretty freaking scary. It makes me think of Jim Jones telling everyone to drink the Kook-Aid.


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Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:56 pm
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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
You might want to read "The God Makers" by Ed Decker and Dave Hunt. I will discuss this in more detail in one of the later chapter threads.


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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
Time for another personal commentary. In an attempt to achieve a peaceable :? settlement of the Mormon issue, Governor Boggs had agreed to allow the Mormons to settle in an area north of the Missouri River, an area which eventually became Caldwell County. It is here that the settlement of Far West was established.

Move forward some 70 years to the early part of the 20th centure. My mother grew up on a farm in Caldwell County, and feelings were still strongly anti-Mormon at this time, so strong that when my family moved to Salt Lake City, Mom warned us to watch out for the Mormons, saying, "They are evil." :twisted:

In the mid-1970s, I was transferred to Kansas City. Mom came up to visit us, and we loaded everyone in our station wagon (does this date me or what?), and we drove to Caldwell County to visit the family homestead. On the way back, we stopped at Far West. At that time, the only thing there was the cornerstones fo the temple that was never build. (According to my Internet research, between then and now a pioneer village has been built on the site.


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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
I guess we can tell why the Bosnians, Serbs and Croats were at each other's throats after 40+ years of peace!


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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
Quote:
the church wasted no time sending out missionaries to proselytize heavily.



sort of like encyclopedia salesmen, i had to just about physically throw one out of my house once :D

there was no dirty psychological technique the guy wouldn't try, luckily i'd been round the block a time or two so his "powers" of persuasion were coming up short.

so whether it's a set of reference books or a new religion..

..if people have a hunger and you work it skillfully apparently the con is not hard.

as one fellow observed

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Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world.



and from another scource

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and evil men and impostors shall advance to the worse, leading astray and being led astray.


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let them alone, guides they are -- blind of blind; and if blind may guide blind, both into a ditch shall fall.'



Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:46 am
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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
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What they didn’t know is that except for a top layer of bright, shiny, silver fifty-cent coins, the boxes were filled with “sand, lead, old iron, stone and combustibles.”



:lol:

a bit like Joseph and his new religion itself :D



Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:00 am
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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
Very interesting. I didn't know about all of the fighting. Wasn't this at about the same time that John Brown was attacking slave owners? Sounds like the Mid-West was pretty violent during the time period.



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Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:43 am
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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
I thought I had already posted this, but don't see it....

US history is full of violence. Race riots, tax riots, Whiskey rebellions, etc. We just don't hear about it too much because it doesn't make the history books. One of the more interesting places to get info is the history of New Orleans. The museum in Jackson Square has many displays where they casually mention the race riots of 1824, 1826, 1829, 1834, etc (I am making up the years because I don't remember them exactly, but there are a lot of them!)


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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
The author glosses over the expansion of church membership in the early 1830s. In 1831 Joseph Smith brought 75 followers to Kirtland, and by 1836 when the temple was completed,
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some thousand men packed into the lower court for the dedication service, with another thousand Saints eagerly crowded around outside hoping to catch a spiritual contact high.

How did the Church expand so rapidly? OK, they had missionaries, but that doesn't explain anything. Where did those thousands come from? Then there are those "scrappy Mormon colonies" in Missouri since 1831--where did they come from? Just how big was the Church membership? How many other colonies did they have? Why were there colonies separate from Joseph Smith's group? There's a lot left unexplained here.



Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:53 pm
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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
KayR wrote:
How did the Church expand so rapidly? OK, they had missionaries, but that doesn't explain anything. Where did those thousands come from? Then there are those "scrappy Mormon colonies" in Missouri since 1831--where did they come from? Just how big was the Church membership? How many other colonies did they have? Why were there colonies separate from Joseph Smith's group? There's a lot left unexplained here.


I think the 'how' the the recruiting would be an interesting discussion. Some of it is hinted at with the person who was helping J Smith write the book of Mormon and put up the money, etc. However, there must be a 'gullibility' that does not seem to exist today, at least not to this degree with the early believers. One assumeption i am making is that the converts were actually "converted". they believed X and then became Mormons. But I think that is an assumption: they may have had no religion at all!


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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
I am watching the Ken Burns "Dustbowl" documentary. There are a number of people who are saying (In response to a particularly large dust storm rolling in) things like "grandmom said it was the end of the world and we believed it" and "my brother said it was the end and I was scared".

Perhaps people were just more accepting of the opinions of others as fact?


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Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:29 am
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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
ginof said
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Perhaps people were just more accepting of the opinions of others as fact?


When you think about it, people are still pretty gullible today, but we have access to more dissenting opinions than we did in the past--the glory of internet.



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Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:11 pm
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Post Re: Ch. 3: The Saints Come Marching In
Good point, KayR.


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Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:32 pm
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