Hi bob (and others)

i made this thread so bob and i and you can just freestyle on any area we care to explore together.

bob

is there anything you want to focus on.

you were asking in another thread if i was a christian, or thought that i identified as a christian

bob wrote:You sound like a Christian, as much as, I am a bullfrog. Or you could say that you are a car for standing the whole day in your garage.

You forgot the Bible says "GIVE an account for the hope that lies within you" 1 Peter 3;15

"Go ye therefore, into all the world and PREACH (declare truth) the Gospel (GOOD NEWS) to every creature..." Matthew 28:18-20.

Maybe you are an undercover Christian?

I know the right answer. It does no good to give the right answer, so you can promptly just agree.

If I asked any person from a faith based system or even an atheist they could tell me their beliefs??? Come on Man!

i'm not a christian in any orthodox sense, haven't been for a while now.

my mind works better when i look at aspects

rather than discuss "christianity" and "islam"

i usually think about something like "how do we treat women" and then look at what various aspects of both christianity and islam make of the subject.

instead of "salvation" i like to look at a particular aspect.

i try not to lose the trees in the forest.

anyways i hope you will feel free to post away here on anything you'd like to discuss.

I appreciate your honestly. I thought that you stated you were a Christian. I must have misread??

Please explain this quote "i usually think about something like "how do we treat women" and then look at what various aspects of both christianity and islam make of the subject."

You seem to infer that they are treated wrong? But I would rather ask for your full clarification.

I totally then agree with your statement that you "don't look at salvation." I believe it is because men have not been given the idiosyncrasies and synchrony of Christendom. That onus has been left upon theologians like me and we have failed!

Please explain this quote "i usually think about something like "how do we treat women" and then look at what various aspects of both christianity and islam make of the subject."

i was just using that as an example

people sometimes discuss something like "christianity" which is such a huge area encompassing things from tillich to westboro baptists and i just get a bit lost in it all

so instead i get further when i look at individual or more specific areas

You seem to infer that they are treated wrong? But I would rather ask for your full clarification.

oh again, it was just an example

every group seems to have good and bad things about it so i prefer to think about those things rather than get lost in the generalities.

for example to say "christianity is bad" seems too gross an oversimplification

but to get more specific and say

christians who quote this scripture

bible wrote:And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

well these christians may be guilty of using their bible to justify their misogynistic tendencies.

so by focussing in on specifics we see the good or bad of it more rather than just lumping it all in together.

a way to wade through the bathwater in search of any potential babies who may get lost in there.

dont give up on me bob

it may take some tenacity on your part, keep honing in on exactly what you want to discuss, dont let me dodge the issue!

i dont mind being pressed at all

go for it if you have the energy, in two or three posts you should be able to get me to talk on precisely what you want to get into.

i apologise if it seems like i am beating around the burning bush

i may seem vague but if you press on and press in i will eventually come out of my stupor and respond.

of course i understand if you have other things to do.

a quick question

in your way of thinking "what must i do to be saved?"

or, what do i seem to be without, and how exactly is Jesus going to factor in to the equation.

i'm interested

but quite happy to go in a different direction if it suits ya better.

BINGO! You have hit the proverbial nail on the head!! You are getting closer.

I do not mean to be vague but you must understand the COMPLETENESS of GOD.

I feel that I will fail you if I answer "what must I do to be saved." It will seem strange my responses, but you must understand that they are in YOUR best interest.

Remember when I said that all men are wrong about God.
We men think that our means of finding God is the right way, but we have convoluted, confused and distorted the RIGHT way to find God. We draw rapid conclusions based on little and often inaccurate information. We then quickly make them concrete concepts instead of going about the proper means to find truth.

I think first you must come to a conclusion that will START your quest to find God.

I believe your name is a play on words YOUKRST - eucharist. It does not matter to mean but I sense you may have a deep background in theological matters.

Is this correct? And if so, how much do you know about the Bible?

If you do know about the Biblical account, answer the following question.
"When God walked and talked with Adam in the Garden of Eden, "Why did God do this?"
Or the question could be asked "Why did God create mankind?"

Enjoy the ride! I will not misuse or abuse you in any way, and never lie to you! You have my word!
I will not always know the answer, but we can find the answer together. People were made to learn from all people.

I believe your name is a play on words YOUKRST - eucharist.

yes, youkrst is like eucharist i was peasantly surprised to discover, but i actually was saying YOU are the KRST (egyptian) only after i typed it did i realise ohhhhh eucharist, very pleasing coincidence

but I sense you may have a deep background in theological matters.

well, not a stranger to these topics i suppose.

at times in the past i spent a lot of time studying comparative religion and world mythology.

i love a good story like anyone else and when the main characters are so close to home, well all the better.

how much do you know about the Bible?

my bible knowledge isn't too shabby.

"When God walked and talked with Adam in the Garden of Eden, "Why did God do this?"

well i don't believe that story should be taken literally. i believe God walked and talked with Adam in the Garden of Eden the same way i believe a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, or a stitch in time saves nine,

it's true a stitch in time saves nine, i believe it, but i dont think i should try and bend the space time fabric with a dressmaking kit.

but if for the sake of discussion i accepted it all as literally true i suppose i could take a shot at it.

because just as a father likes to hang and have fun with his kids so our loving heavenly Father enjoys fellowship with His children.

"Why did God create mankind?"

to enjoy unending bliss with Him and to impart to us all He possibly could of Himself.

In a round about way you get close enough. I define it as this "God made man to care for him, and to have man care for Him." It was a reciprocal mutually enjoyed relationship. God could have made puppets to obey His wishes, but a free will being who mutually appreciates you is the BEST relationship.

But the main point is to understand that God wanted a mutually enjoyed relationship!!

Now, the next important question is "What was the purpose or reason for God to test man to NOT EAT of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?"

The question can be raised was Adam capable of obeying God and not eating from the tree or was he destined (likely to fail) to fail due to foreknowledge of God?"

bob wrote:What was the purpose or reason for God to test man to NOT EAT of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

well again, i think it would be a mistake to take a story that features the first man, the first woman, God and a talking snake and fruit that makes you live forever literally.

this story is so obviously not meant to be taken literally. It could not possibly be literally true.

it could only possibly be meant as allegory.

you would have to be totally uncritical to take that story as a literal presentation.

but, if for the sake of discussion we have to accept it as literally true i guess i could take a shot at it.

What was the purpose or reason for God to test man to NOT EAT of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Man had to have free will so he wouldn't be a robot, God wouldn't want to fellowship with robots. So because of free will there had to be some way so that God and man could know that the fellowship was genuine.

so a test was required to see if man was loving God out of his free will or was secretly willing to disobey when put to the tempters testing. (on behalf of God)

this strikes me as an absurdly simplistic reading of the garden story but it seems to be the direction you are taking me with the questions.

To learn truth you must set aside your preconceived notions. The reason I say this is because of interviewing over 2,000 people over to learn more of mankind. To learn anything new you must set aside preconceived notions. I am saying that you have more than the right to come back and consider your concepts against what I claim as truth.

Just to address some of the account of Genesis. My book proves why it is an accurate account to 1) being a literal 6 days; 2) a literal account of creation 3) a totally accurate account. God did not have to give this account to man. Also, if God did not give the accurate account than God is a liar.

the "talking snake" was not a snake but a word used to point towards Satan. Have you ever been so mad at someone that you couldn't mention their name. This is what happened with God and Satan, Satan was not the messenger doing God's behest. Satan had led 1/3 of the angels with him and were kicked out of heaven.

the reason Satan is causing such mayhem on earth is to get so many people going to hell with him, so that, he can stand before God and claim "I must have been right because so many people are on my side with me." But he will only be wrong with a elongated supporting cast.

But to the question at hand - Why did God put Adam to the test by not eating from the Tree of knowledge of good and evil?

1) God wanted to test Adam and determine if his allegiance was to HIM or to man pleasing HIMSELF. Adam and all of US failed the test. We were "in the loins of Adam" meaning that if he had not sinned (broke God's law) I or anyone of us would have.
2) This "test" was for a short period of time, likely 30-90 days. The case would have been settled if he did not sin for that period of time.

So feel free to ask what you want to know or re-cover again before proceeding.

bob wrote:To learn truth you must set aside your preconceived notions.

certainly, 'tis often so.

bob wrote:it is an accurate account to 1) being a literal 6 days; 2) a literal account of creation 3) a totally accurate account.

ok lets go one at a time

1) being a literal 6 days

so you are claiming that God (Yahweh?) has made the heavens and the earth and all that is in them in 6 days, literally did all that in 6 days?

what evidence do you have to support this claim?

i fear you may have fallen victim to this

Biblical scientific errors occur when a verse, approached from a literalist perspective, states something about reality that's fundamentally flawed.