My experience is that even simple and obvious examples of astral thinking within the Bible are rejected on principle by Jesus Fundamentalists because it conflicts with traditional theology. Explaining the probable astral motives is a highly complex endeavour given that this entire mode of thinking was condemned by Christendom for a thousand years as heresy, with possession of written material a capital crime.

The church still assumes a position of social power in which it can marginalise conflicting comments as heresy. Church censorship remains highly influential in media and research. Fundamentalists seek to poison the well through their ignorant mockery.

As with other paradigm shifts, the old framework is broken, but the new model has not yet achieved persuasive coherence. Scientifically, the challenge remains to identify the big issues - such as the role of cosmology in religion - and explore the probability of explanations for how extant evidence on this topic could have evolved.

so in the bible where i am expecting to find astrotheology i find this verse

[7] the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight.

(Revelation 4:7 ESV)

lion
ox
man
eagle

now i look at a zodiac














not only are they there they form a cross

c'mon

all this stuff has been covered before but like that video where no-one sees the gorilla crossing the basketball court i hope that by replaying the video a few times at least we can get Flann to admit that "astrotheology is in the bible" and it is not absurd to say so.

besides it helps me develop my communication skills.

Bishop derives from Vishnu, the god who rose from the mouth of a great fish (sound familiar?).



He is the priest of the piscean cult--of Jesus Christ and he wears the mitre hat which is really a fish-head in honor of Oannes, the fish-man who came from the sea to teach humans and who was depicted a man wearing a fish skin.



Today we call Oannes the fish-man by Christianized name of John the Baptist. Now whether John was a real person or not doesn't matter because the gospels fictionalized him. Born 6 months before Jesus, according to Luke, he was on the exact opposite side of the zodiac so that with he and Jesus together, the year is complete--the waning and waxing halves, as they are called and hence statement that he must languish while Jesus increases. If John was real, there is virtually no chance that he was related to Jesus (and this bit of news certainly never reached the other gospel-writers) and he was certainly not a mere 6 months older than Jesus. He would have been somebody substantially older--a good decade, one would think. Jesus told his followers that that John came neither eating nor drinking and the same was said of Oannes (also referred to as Joannes).

Another strange incident occurs at Mark 8:27-28:

27 And Jesus went on with his disciples, to the villages of Caesare′a Philippi; and on the way he asked his disciples, “Who do men say that I am?” 28 And they told him, “John the Baptist; and others say, Eli′jah; and others one of the prophets.”

Why would people think that Jesus was John the Baptist?? How could there possibly be any confusion?? Are the water-man and the fish-man the same personage?


Jonah whose name is very similar to John. Jesus was an updated Jonah and said so himself (Matthew 12:40). Both came from Galilee. Jonah shares the same Hebrew root as "dove." And he was thrown off a ship and so his story is a retelling of Noah setting a dove off the ark. Jonah was asleep in the ship when a storm hit and the man ran down to him thinking he had something to do with it and so he bade them to throw him overboard and the storm would stop. Mark 4:37-38 virtually repeats this story only with Jesus calming the storm by command.

Now, you'll read that "bishop" comes from the Old English "bisceop" and shares the same root as the Latin "episcopus" and yet look at the latter word. Pisces is hidden inside it!!

Most sources will say that episcopus refers to an elder who watches over the flock. In Greek "epi"=over and "scopus"=watch or observe but we have to understand that the organized religions borrowed older terms and titles because it was what people were used to and then had to obscure those meanings to hide where they came from. If your church tells you that Mithraism is evil they have to obscure the origins of any terms they may have borrowed from Mithraism.

Another example is "Amen" which Christians say at the end of their prayers. We are told it means "so be it." Ridiculous. It is the Egyptian word for the Hidden God, the god of prayer and supplication. Amen is that force in the world that moves things along but is unseen, unheard.

Jesus talks of Amen in Matthew when he tells people that prayer should only be done in private where no one is likely to see or hear you:

Matthew 6:4
That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Matthew 6:18
That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

Matthew 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father WHICH SEETH IN SECRET SHALL REWARD THEE OPENLY.

When Christians pray, they send the prayer off to Amen by invoking his name at the end of the prayer. The Christian god is the Egyptian Hidden god. His name is also rendered at Ammon and Amun. Come cults equated him with Ra and so he became Ammon-Ra or Amun-Ra. Wiki refers to Amen thusly:

The name Amun (written imn, pronounced Amana in ancient Egyptian [5]) meant something like "the hidden one" or "invisible".[6] It was thought that Amun created himself and then his surroundings.

One Egyptian stele had this inscription:

"[Amun] who comes at the voice of the poor in distress, who gives breath to him who is wretched..You are Amun, the Lord of the silent, who comes at the voice of the poor; when I call to you in my distress You come and rescue me...Though the servant was disposed to do evil, the Lord is disposed to forgive. The Lord of Thebes spends not a whole day in anger; His wrath passes in a moment; none remains. His breath comes back to us in mercy..May your ka be kind; may you forgive; It shall not happen again."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amun

Sounds vaguely familiar, doesn't it?

Since the Jews came out of Egypt, according the standard histories, they had adopted many Egyptian modes of thought and belief. When they broke away, those modes couldn't be changed--that's throwing out the baby with the bath water. So they changed the meanings underlying. That's why we think of Moses being a Hebrew name. It's Egyptian and can be found in such Egyptian names as Thutmoses.

Same with the sun disc—Aton which was renamed over the centuries as Adon, Adonis, Attis, Odin, Eden, etc.--but you look in bibles and what not and they tell you all sorts of crap.

It becomes necessary for the new cult to both incorporate and, at the same time, obliterate the old one. So the term episcopal can have its fish cult source hidden by its Greek counterpart which has nothing to do with fish.

Look at an analog watch or clock. Notice it has three hands. The shortest hand that moves very slowly is the hour hand, the longer one that moves faster is the minute hand. Where does the word "hour" come from? From "Horus" the Egyptian solar god. His name turns up in horae and horoscope and probably the houris as well—the 72 virgins the Muslims suicide bombers are blowing themselves up for. So the hour hand represents the movement of the sun. What about the minute hand? Minute=Min and Nuit. What does "min" mean? It was originally an Egyptian lunar deity and the name is where we derive the word "moon". Nuit is the goddess of the night sky and was depicted in Egyptian art as black and spangled with stars. The minute hand represents the movement of the moon through the sky. But look up history of the word "minute" and it won't tell you that. Yet, what is a clock? A representation of the heavens, of course. The sky was our original clock.

So what is the second hand representative of? A clue is that it is the fastest moving hand on the clock. If the clock-face represents the heavens then the fastest moving body is Mercury.

This ties in with the word "temple." It is related to time such as words as "temporal." Why? Because the priests were the time-keepers and calendar-makers in virtually every culture on this planet. You can tell if a religion is solar, lunar or stellar by the calendar it uses. Islam is lunar and its holy month of Ramadan starts with the sighting of the crescent moon. The symbol of Islam uses both the crescent moon and the star. Judaism is lunisolar because it uses a lunar calendar converted to a solar one. Its symbol is a 6-pointed star which represents Saturn:



Wiki states:

In the book The History and Practice of Magic, Vol. 2, the six-pointed star is called the talisman of Saturn and it is also referred to as the Seal of Solomon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagram

Language is like a fossil record of past concepts and customs except the fossils aren't dead, they are still living because the language which has encompassed those ideas and thoughts is still living. When you break the words open, all this hidden history and evolutionary record of consciousness spills forth.

i love this thread

Here's a pretty good summary of the astromythological story behind the star of Bethlehem.

http://www.usbible.com/Astrology/star_of_bethlehem.htm

The Sino-Japanese ideogram for a time or hour. It is called toki or ji. The window-like rectangle on the left is the sun and the cross-like thing on the right shows two things in abstract--on the bottom right is an ideogram of a hand measuring a pulse (called sun) and on the top is the ideogram for earth or the ground (called do). Sun indicates measurement (either distance or justice) and do represents a place with this is done. Without the solar ideogram on the left, these sun and do form the ideogram for a temple, the place where laws are made. It is pronounced tera or ji. When the solar character is added on the left, the whole ideogram now means time shown in abstract as the temple where the sun's movement is measured. This is because the priests of the temples were the timekeepers and calendar-makers just as they are all over the globe. The word "church" should be gotten rid of (derived from kyrie) and temple should be the only word--the ancient world's observatories. So the Western temple meaning time and the Sino-Japanese ideogram for time showing a temple complement one another. This ideogram is used in Japan for "o'clock" and pronounced ji and the Japanese numbers placed before tell the time. Ichiji is one o'clock, niji is two o'clock, sanji is three o'clock and so on.


Clock with Japanese numbers.




The Japanese word for clock--tokei. The ideogram on the right symbolizes saying something in 10s and means to count. Time-counter or time-meter--a clock or a watch.

If anyone thinks that the "temples" of the West weren't concerned with time or calendars, I merely draw your attention to the name of the calendar we use--Gregorian.

DB Roy wrote:Language is like a fossil record of past concepts and customs except the fossils aren't dead, they are still living because the language which has encompassed those ideas and thoughts is still living. When you break the words open, all this hidden history and evolutionary record of consciousness spills forth.

DB Roy wrote:Bishop derives from Vishnu, the god who rose from the mouth of a great fish (sound familiar?).

DB Roy wrote:Now, you'll read that "bishop" comes from the Old English "bisceop" and shares the same root as the Latin "episcopus" and yet look at the latter word. Pisces is hidden inside it!!

Most sources will say that episcopus refers to an elder who watches over the flock. In Greek "epi"=over and "scopus"=watch or observe but we have to understand that the organized religions borrowed older terms and titles because it was what people were used to and then had to obscure those meanings to hide where they came from.

A strange conspiracy theory here. Most scholarly sources say that the Latin episcopus is from the Greek episkopos which refers to one who watches over others, because that is precisely correct.

http://www.myetymology.com/greek/episkopos.html

Now D.B. tells us that pisces is in episcopus though it's practically transliterated from the Greek episkopos.

And he also knows that the Greek word for fish is ichthys which is nothing like episkopos. The Latin word pisces is from the Latin for fish piscu,no surprise there.
Furthermore the English word bishop is from the Latin episcopus which you can check by following the links on the etymology site above.
So this is just shoddy misuse of language to push a pet theory.

DB Roy wrote:Bishop derives from Vishnu, the god who rose from the mouth of a great fish (sound familiar?).

As you can see by looking at the etymology linked above it most certainly does not come from Vishnu.

Furthermore the meaning of the Sanskrit name Vishnu means to pervade as he is supposed to be the all pervading one.

http://veda.wikidot.com/vishnu

I see nothing in this wiki article about Vishnu that says he rose from the great mouth of a fish,incidentally. One of his supposed ten avatars Matsya is a fish and that's about it.

D.B. can just make assertions without checking his facts, since after all, I'll do that for him. And he can just forge ahead fooling around with similarities of sound in different languages like Rama and Ramath, and when corrected just ignore it and move blithely on to the next few examples of the same kind of badly founded assertions.

DB Roy wrote: He would have been somebody substantially older--a good decade, one would think. Jesus told his followers that that John came neither eating nor drinking and the same was said of Oannes (also referred to as Joannes).

I'll come to this in more detail another time but for now would just note the appallingly bad standard of interpretation used here to force a parallel. John the baptist came neither eating nor drinking? He ate locusts and wild honey but wasn't wining and dining at the palace of Herod.
Crass literalism.

this Matsya stuff is fascinating though

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsya_Purana

This Purana is the story of the Matsya Avatar (incarnation) of Lord Vishnu, Manu who was the King of Dravidadesa, and the first Mahapralaya (Great Deluge). In the end, Manu and all those he saves are safe in a large ship that he builds, atop the high Malaya Mountains. A number of Hindu scholars have taken the progression of forms assumed by Vishnu in the narrative, from fish to turtle to boar to "half-man and half-lion", to dwarf human, to human with an axe, to princely human, to Krishna (bringer of scripture) to Buddha (the enlightened one) to Kalki (the future human yet to come), as an analogy for evolution.

Western churches have offices that were named for star-reading and navigation that date back to the times of the stellar cults. A deacon, for example, is really decan. When the Egyptians tracked the rising of the zodiacal constellations, they divided them into thirds by watching for the rising of three non-zodiacal constellations spaced 10 degrees apart and called these decans. With three decans for all 12 houses of the zodiac, that makes 36 decans.

Another church office is sexton--the guy who rings the bell and digs the graves. His title derives from sextant. A sextant is 1/6 of a full circle and used to plot longitude.

A nun gets her name from the Hebrew letter which signifies a fish which reveals her membership in the Piscean cult. From her title we get the word noon when the sun reaches its highest point in the heavenly vault, the womb of the Goddess, and the two are wedded in bliss. Hence are nuns known as the brides of Christ. Her black habit, however, reveals her Saturnian affiliation.

Pastor is PAter and star--Father Star who would be the sun for the solar cult, Saturn for the Saturnian cult, Jupiter for the Jupiterian cult and so on. Since they generally wear black and have collars, they are still aligned with Saturn whether they know it or not.

Minister is min (moon) and star. His title is the very thing depicted in the Islamic logo because it stands for the same thing--the lunar and stellar cults. Monastery means the same thing. A place where they teach about the moon and stars.

Monsignor is Sir Moon, Elder Moon , Great Moon.

As for the 72 houris or virgins in heaven that I mentioned earlier, they are astronomical in nature. The 36 decans of the zodiac are each divided into 2 five-degree sections called quinaries. There are 72 of those. The name houri apparently means a white raisin which are considered delicacies and may refer to stars. The extremist Muslims are blowing themselves up for 72 raisins divvying up the zodiac.