DWill wrote: Jews seems to have success in many fields that is disproportionate to their percentage of the population. Are Jews just exceptionally smart? If that's not the explanation, does culture account for their outstanding abilities?

One of the ways we can avoid the pitfalls of racism, e.g. generalization and stereotyping, is to skip over the question. But it is interesting. In development economics there is a much-discussed theory of "blocked minorities" arguing that if a minority group is excluded from positions of direct power the exceptional individuals often seek business success. Jews have been in that position virtually ever since the destruction of the second Temple, and have indeed aimed for "private sector" success.

Contributing to this choice of path was a vulnerability to expulsion, which happened over and over in many parts of the world and led to investment in portable capital, i.e. skills. Doctors in Medieval Spain, Mesopotamia and Asia Minor were disproportionately Jewish. In Europe they were often forbidden from owning land or being part of many professions.

Other famous blocked minorities include the Parsees in India (Tata Industries is a Parsee operation, and Freddie Mercury was a Parsee), the offshore Chinese all over SE Asia, and the Indian and Middle Eastern minorities in many parts of Africa. Of course the Roma ("Gypsy") people were in the same situation and did not respond the same way.

Jews were among the earliest people to limit family size as part of a strategy of investing in education. This tends to lead over time to a group with small numbers but high success rates, and the cultural cultivation of ideas, strategic thinking, strong basic education, and entrepreneurial skills. Not to mention a great musical tradition (stemming partly from contact in Eastern Europe to the Rom, who brought many of the catchiest musical styles from India and Central Asia - check out the similarities of flamenco to Gypsy to Rajasthan dance, and Klezmer music to Gypsy music) (why do I feel like I am doing a "Connections" riff?).

But who knows, they may be genetically smarter, too. Does it matter? Variation within group is always much larger than variation between group averages.

DWill wrote:On conspiracies, I have the impression that simply having a great many people involved rules out true conspiracy, even though it doesn't rule out bad stuff happening because of a lot of similar actions by a lot of people. The 2008 financial crisis wasn't a conspiracy, but it was probably worse in that it seemed like a whole part of the culture gone rogue.

Good observation. I overheard a conversation in 1994 between two finance types, one of whom had had an interview question at Salomon Brothers as to whether they would be willing to sit in an empty room staring out the window if it brought in a million a year, whose point was, "if you want to work here, throw out ideas of being productive and concentrate on whatever makes big money". I could tell even back then that Wall Street was going rogue.

In Europe for centuries Jews were not allowed to own businesses in town. So they had to move from town to town essentially running shell games to make money. Many traveled in Gypsy caravans because of robbers on the road. The fast grab-and-split games that they ran contributed to their shady reputation but they had to eat, they had to make money and if you deny them the proper means to do that, then they'll resort to criminal enterprises. Another thing the Jews did was get into usury--lending money at interest.

The same thing happened in America with blacks. They are told to play the game straight but when they do they realize it is stacked against them. So a lot of young black men develop a contempt for society and go into criminal activities and then whites accuse them of an inherent criminality even though most blacks still try to play the game straight even when they know they are being cheated because it's better than prison.

In Japan, when the govt did away with the samurai system, the samurai had to destroy their armor. So a sizable number of them tattooed their armor on their bodies as well as scenes of samurai and what not. These secret samurai were called yakuza. In many areas, the people were more faithful to the yakuza than the authorities. To discourage this, the govt mandated that no one with a tattoo could be hired by anybody for any reason. This bad decision left the yakuza no choice but to go into criminal enterprises and Japan has been plagued with organized crime ever since.

Unfortunately, the people who want to avoid the pitfalls of racism are people who are not racists. When you are a racist, you don't care. While I certainly wouldn't say that all conservative Christians are racist, there is a racism that permeates their ranks. It surfaces overtly from time to time--such as the couple at the Republican National Convention during the last election year that threw peanuts at a black woman who was part of the camera crew and told her to go back to the zoo where she belonged. In the case of Dylann Roof's attack, they try to frame it as an attack on Christianity (or, in Rick Santorum's case, an assault on religious liberty) when it was clear to anyone paying attention that it was a racist attack. Fox commentators even expressed incredulity that Roof's murderous spree could possibly be labeled a hate crime--it was just some white guy shooting a bunch of black people in a church, that's all! Rudy Giuliani stated, "Maybe he hates Christian churches." They went out of their way to avoid admitting the truth of Roof's actions.

The reason this is so is because among Christian conservatives (it permeates much of white America) is the pervading beliefs that THEY are the victims. This belief has run wild among them now since at least the 60s. The godless atheist/liberals (one in the same thing to them) have taken God out of the classroom and marginalized the bible and the church. Students may still pray but a teacher can't lead it. Many schools host bible study groups but teachers cannot run them. Anyone may go to church who wants to go to church. These is no persecution of Christians.

But this type of self-pity dovetails nicely with the idea that white people are an endangered species, will be extinct in 100 years if something is done quickly. In fact, if you replace "white people" or "white race" with "white Christian" we see why racism is so soft-pedaled among conservative Christians. Deep down inside is the belief, however uncomfortable it may be for some of them to admit, that Dylann Roof did something that was ultimately good, ultimately necessary. He sent the message to blacks that whites are mad! A kind of "See what you made us do??" They are like those who say Hitler did good things but he just took it too far.

They might point to video clips of stupid black kids sucker punching anonymous white people on the street in their so-called knock-out game as an example of how white people are victimized. Yes, I would agree those are racist attacks and I agree they should be prosecuted as hate crimes and if one of these kids was shot trying sucker punch somebody then I say GOOD! However, this type of stupidity on the part of blacks don't have a power structure and justice system that stands behind it and says, "Well, you shouldn't let people punch you while you're not expecting it" in the same way that when a black girl is assaulted by a cop and dragged across the floor it's because "She should have did what they cop told her" without any reflection whatsoever that the cop's actions were outrageous and unnecessary. Or when a black woman is arrested for refusing to show a cop her ID even though she was under no legal obligation to show her ID and white people who refuse to show ID under the same circumstances are not arrested. None of this matters because it gets in the way of white Christian self-pity and victim role-playing.

They feel the need to reduce a racist rampage by a white man to a cultural war in which white Christians are the victims in order to remove any notions of martyrdom to Roof's actual victims. Their words are passive-aggressive insults that amount to, "You know why he did what he did!" Such would be an admission the culture they embrace so fervently does indeed WILLFULLY hurt people. That's why they so eagerly joined in the banning of Confederate battle flags in the wake of the massacre. They know banning them is an empty gesture but down the road when the next race-addled idiot goes a shooting spree, they can point to the banning of the flags and say, "This is what the liberals wanted and what good did it do? All they did was destroy our culture and our history. That's probably what pushed this guy over the edge in the first place." Basically, their motto should be: WE ARE THE VICTIMS AND NOT YOU!!!!!!

And it is that mentality which CI sees as a version of its own and therefore perfect for exploiting.

DB Roy wrote: The same thing happened in America with blacks. They are told to play the game straight but when they do they realize it is stacked against them. So a lot of young black men develop a contempt for society and go into criminal activities and then whites accuse them of an inherent criminality even though most blacks still try to play the game straight even when they know they are being cheated because it's better than prison.

In the case of Dylann Roof's attack, they try to frame it as an attack on Christianity (or, in Rick Santorum's case, an assault on religious liberty) when it was clear to anyone paying attention that it was a racist attack. Fox commentators even expressed incredulity that Roof's murderous spree could possibly be labeled a hate crime

The reason this is so is because among Christian conservatives (it permeates much of white America) is the pervading beliefs that THEY are the victims. This belief has run wild among them now since at least the 60s. The godless atheist/liberals (one in the same thing to them) have taken God out of the classroom and marginalized the bible and the church.

All so true it hurts. The ACLU is the enemy, everybody knows that. Cover for communists. Run by Jews. Trying to turn the US into a secular nation.

I do think the victim mentality has a basis in the self-conscious feeling of inferiority that a lot of rednecks have about their education. Just as "the little man" once felt victimized by corporations, so today the "working man" feels victimized by an economy of pretense to expertise, of 150 mortgage options structured to give the salesman an advantage over the customer.

There was a great piece in the New York Times over the weekend about the shift to including acceptance of arbitration in sales agreements, because the Supreme Court has ruled that these can exclude class action lawsuits. One company blatantly got away with charging 20 bucks in violation of its own promise (not in writing), since it knows that no class action suit will be brought.

Needless to say it has also gutted protection against discrimination for minorities and women.

The question is why the "working man" must hate someone lower on a ladder instead of taking aim at the ones who actually rip him off. A lot of sociology has been based on that question, and I guess it makes sense in a twisted sort of way, but still, in a way, it does not make sense. Just like giving up and going outside the system because the system is so much stacked against a group, it only makes sense in a twisted way.

DB Roy wrote:They feel the need to reduce a racist rampage by a white man to a cultural war in which white Christians are the victims in order to remove any notions of martyrdom to Roof's actual victims.

Basically, their motto should be: WE ARE THE VICTIMS AND NOT YOU!!!!!!

I liked your comparison to "see what you made me do"!