DWill wrote:The duncehat softened by the smiley face. Still, ouch!

we are all dunce, only i am duncier than thou i read the bible for decades and never twigged, that makes me thicker than the average brick

DWill wrote:Whether this is there by intent of the writers or folk originators, or is discovered there by readers so inclined, isn't too important.

ahhhh but it is though.

it goes to the point i'm trying to clarify.

i'm saying that the exoteric was written only to be the container of the esoteric meaning, the oyster only exists to yield the pearl so to speak.

the fact that people (i'm a people too) are generally unaware enough to get all swallowed up in the ridiculous outer meaning and miss the sublime esoteric intent of the work within is evident.

Jesus IS a metaphor
Satan IS a metaphor

the whole story IS an allegory.

etc etc

the other aspects dont interest me much is all.

DWill wrote:What I'm complaining about is revisionism that claims there is nothing else going on in these works other than allegorizing,

i wouldn't say nothing else is going on simply that it seems that nearly everyone has recieved these stories as some kind of history when they are clearly allegory.

this point seems to dwarf any other in relation to this huge bungle.

the bungle of interpreting allegory as history.

DWill wrote:they were offered originally by poets who had no reason for presenting them other than to create works of beauty or convey timeless truths.

ahhhh i might see where i can clarify a little

i am so interested in the "works of beauty to convey timeless truths" aspect that i find all the other aspects irrelevant, of course they are not, but i am usually utterly disinterested in them.

DWill wrote:If you read these works and miss the very clear intent to state agendas, to establish historical truth, perhaps to settle political scores,

specific examples please so i can be sure exactly what you are driving at.

DWill wrote:I've viewed your position as rather black or white.

ahh yes, in my enthusiasm to see the great allegory blunder corrected i may seem that way.

but when you see that for two millenia people have accepted black as the only reality it is perhaps understandable that white be emphasised, only to get the picture back.

i'm not a black OR white kinda guy
i'm a black AND white AND every shade in between kinda guy (happy to do colours as well)

but i can see how my incessant hammering on the inability of people to see that Jesus IS a metaphor in a myth that is an allegory would make it seem as if i dont think anything else is there, i do, but it is of little interest to me compared to the MASSIVE blunder of folk to read it as history.

imagine if you will there was made known to you a society called "the bird in the hand society"

dedicated to finding the original bird in the hand mentioned in the famous proverb 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush'

might you not be keen to point out to them that the whole thing is an adage, never meant to be taken literally and rendering any who do as 'missing the point'

if someone says to me

ahhhhh i get it, Jesus is a metaphor for "the mystery" within, Satan is a metaphor for that which resists "the mystery within" ahhh the kingdom is within, ahhhh it's not a case of "is there anybody out there" they are all in here, ahhh the reason we cant find god out there is because he has been hiding in here the whole time.

then i would smile a big smile and STFU!

probably question them a little as to whether they like nickelback just to make sure they weren't faking it

Just what are they lying about in this context of religion?

when the orthodoxy was enforced a lie was forcibly made truth. now the truth is rising out from among the dead and there is going to be a showdown

to hold onto 60s pseudo-Marxism?

i dont even know what marxism is so i'm afraid pseudo marxism is really a mystery.

I don't buy the line that an oligarchy somehow makes people believe that something figurative is actually literal. The people need no forcing to have those beliefs; they love that stuff the best, entirely without convincing. I live in an area of very conservative religion. There isn't a North Korean dictator making them believe this stuff. They'd kick somebody out of the pulpit if he tried to go all squishy allegorical on them. You'd be on firmer ground saying these people are self-deluded.

undoubtedly but when the orthodoxy was enforced the cure for the disease was removed from view.

when you know someone has a weak point and you arrange things so that the weak point makes them more exploitable for your gain, keep 'em in the dark and feed 'em shite, you are engaged in social engineering of the most despicable kind.

you are preying on your fellow man

I think we're all alone here, youkrst, and I guess I shouldn't contribute more than I have already to foisting a conversation on the good people of BT. But it has been nice to have this dialogue with you.

The full text to the article you linked in the mega church thread requires a membership.