Would you volunteer?

Interbane · Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:59 am


	Quote: Seems to me it would make more sense to send a bunch of robots first to build housing and such. Even after that was done, I think we have lots of problems to solve here on earth that need all the clever thinking they can get. Until we can learn to live sanely with one another without destroying our environment, I don't support exporting our insanity to other parts of the cosmos.

The idea of robots makes sense. Well, I just started typing and realized why it might not work. It's a great idea to put down a self-sustained habitat, with plants to produce oxygen and food, water recycling, etc. It would be nice to know if it could actually become self sufficient before humans live there. But then, there would almost inevitably be repairs that only a human could do. Repairs that would be needed or the mission would be scrapped. So without a human as the custodian, the place would likely go kaput. Perhaps we just need better robots.

I think we need to spread out even if we are destroying our environment. We sure couldn't do any more damage to Mars than the state it's currently in. It's a barren rock. Terraforming it would be great practice. Taking care of a house is easier after you've built one from the ground up.

Chris OConnor · Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:07 pm

If you asked me if I would go to the Moon and live in some sort of a lunar habitat for a few months or even years I'd jump on the opportunity. But I wouldn't agree to the one-way mission to Mars unless everyone I know and love is going too AND the science is proven where we all feel very confident we will survive and thrive. To me a one-way trip to Mars is similar to suicide in that the moment you leave you are as good as dead to planet Earth. You'll never again see your family, friends, home or anything that you are accustomed to seeing that makes you feel warm and cozy.


	tbarron wrote: Seems to me it would make more sense to send a bunch of robots first to build housing and such.

I agree that robots are a crucial first step. We need to master the science of developing robots that can travel to Mars or other planets and moons and then do construction projects such as build a habitat that humans can one day inhabit. But wow is that a long way away with all the problems we're having here on this planet. Not everyone values research and adventuring. There will always be a continuous political battle about spending tax dollars for space exploration and planet terraforming.

This is why the private sector will probably have to take the reins with space exploration. I'm waiting for the day when Virgin announces a planned mission to the Moon. I'll be doing cartwheels from the excitement.


	Interbane wrote: I think we need to spread out even if we are destroying our environment.

I agree with you. We'll be waiting forever if we demand that we wait until we're no longer damaging our planet and living in peace and overall tranquility here on Earth. I doubt that will ever happen. And why does it matter so much if there are literally billions of planets out there for us to one day visit? Maybe we're approaching the carrying capacity of Earth and the time is right for us to venture out and conquer new worlds. That excites me very much.

A thought just came to me. When we left England to come settle the United States did we wait till England had it's act together? Did we wait till every mouth was fed, every person had a warm blanket at night and pollution was reduced? It is human nature to reach out to the unknown and I applaud people that have the courage to do this. We all owe a debt of gratitude for the adventurers that helped pave the way for the rest of us.


	DWill wrote: It might be difficult to get anyone to accept this mission who wasn't absolutely down and out, as far as "earthly" prospects are concerned. And you wouldn't want to seed your new world with such types.

There may be a day when such a mission is more attractive because a large group of people can and will be sent. I imagine we all might be more inclined to consider the one-way trip if we knew 1,000 people were going, including dozens of people from our own family and circle of friends, and there already are 5,000 people living in this habitat on Mars. It is all the unknowns that scare the heck out of me. I'm probably one of those people that doesn't automatically say NO to such an idea. I need to think about it in detail. What are all the known facts? What are my odds of survival? What will be my standard of living? The excitement of seeing a new planet is a pretty strong motivator.

I think our focus needs to be on our Moon. We should not even be talking about a one-way trip to Mars when we don't even have a few dozen astronauts living permanently on our Moon. Before long China will be beaming back videos of their men and women walking, driving, playing and living on the Moon. In my opinion the United States needs to stop pretending we're bored with the Moon and ready for bigger and better things. The Moon offers us a wonderful opportunity to learn how to colonize a planet.

DWill · Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:17 pm

Chris, I used to think that without any water on it, the moon was not suited for our colonization. The fairly recent proof that there is plenty of water locked up in ice changes my mind about that.

Chris OConnor · Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:03 pm

I just can't believe the world isn't working together to create an entire lunar city. The possibility is so exciting to me. And yes there is water up there. I'm sure we'll find other resources too.

Interbane · Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:06 am


	Quote: A thought just came to me. When we left England to come settle the United States did we wait till England had it's act together? Did we wait till every mouth was fed, every person had a warm blanket at night and pollution was reduced? It is human nature to reach out to the unknown and I applaud people that have the courage to do this. We all owe a debt of gratitude for the adventurers that helped pave the way for the rest of us.

You know, at the same time I was reading this I also had a similar thought. It's a video game example, which I do sometimes. When I play strategy games where you have to develop a town or city, and grow to found new cities until you have quite a few under your control, the first city is always sloppy. But I learn from my mistakes. Developing a second helps me learn to better manage my first, and so on. By the time I have half a dozen under my control, things start running like clockwork.

tbarron · Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:44 am


	Quote: A thought just came to me. When we left England to come settle the United States did we wait till England had it's act together? Did we wait till every mouth was fed, every person had a warm blanket at night and pollution was reduced? It is human nature to reach out to the unknown and I applaud people that have the courage to do this. We all owe a debt of gratitude for the adventurers that helped pave the way for the rest of us.

I was thinking of the effect the arrival of Europeans had on the folks already living in the Western Hemisphere. Some came from England, some came from Spain, some from other parts of Europe. In all cases, Native cultures were subverted and destroyed. Estimates are that 90% or more of the native population died because of having no immunity to European and Asian diseases. Over time, the environment has been degraded.

What is it that makes us think it's our right to go wherever we want and take whatever we want?

Chris OConnor · Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:33 am

You're assuming that there are intelligent living creatures that we will displace when we venture forth. More than likely the first worlds we discover and settle will not have advanced lifeforms already present. I'm not suggesting it is our right to travel to new worlds and slaughter the native inhabitants. I'm suggesting we travel to our Moon and Mars and settle and terraform currently dead worlds.

tbarron · Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:56 pm

Who knows what might be damaged? I'm not sure why this is such a hot button topic for me.

I believe the intentions behind the initiative are good. I'm troubled by how humanity's history is littered with good intentions coupled with unforeseen consequences that led to lots of suffering.

You're right, of course. We're only talking about the Moon and Mars. As far as we know there's no life on either one. Of course, if human settlers go to Mars, there *will* be life there. I wonder how many generations it will take for the settlers to stop seeing themselves as transplanted "Earthlings" and begin to see themselves as "native Martians". How long will it take for them to lose their allegiance to Earth?

DWill · Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:02 am

I like Chris' point about international cooperation, how the nations working together on the moon might provide a laboratory for how things could be on earth. That would be a real terrestrial spin-off from the space program. I also wonder if somehow the very difficulty of creating an environment anything like that of earth would make us more aware of the miracle we have here. Maybe we'd finally come to appreciate our environment?

Interbane · Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:42 am

If you read about the Biosphere program(I think it was called Biosphere?), you catch a glimpse of how difficult it is. It was the fully enclosed and supposedly self sufficient ecoplex in Arizona, where a few scientists were going to live for a few years. Unfortunately, the soil they used to "terraform" the place was loaded with microbes. The microbes alone were enough to suck all the oxygen out of the air, causing carbon dioxide to spike. The experiment failed after a few months when they realized they needed oxygen.

Apparently, even loaded with plants, it's difficult to keep oxygen levels high. Plants just barely have a positive ratio. A single tree doesn't produce nearly enough oxygen for a large animal to survive. Any ecosystem we create would need a massive greenhouse complex, and some way to keep microbes from multiplying and pilfering all the O2. We have all the technology, we just have to make it happen.

I'm fully with Chris. Let's get a freaking base on the moon already! I want to see a real picture of Earth from through the window of a greenhouse, floating across the sky. I mean, my computer needs a new cool wallpaper!

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