Wicked: Nanny and her perception of life.

Ophelia · Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:08 am Post subject:

What Sarima says about men and women holding grudges or not is of course very interesting.

What she says about men is easy to follow; what she says about women makes me stop and think: "cold simmer, ceaseless grudge, talent to avoid forgiveness, the sidestepping of compromise..." etc...

Perhaps this is an example of art: not really describing reality, but making you pause, putting it into words that you will remember.

It is true that men seem to be less adept at bearing grudges than women.
Some men are forgiving and generous, just as some women are.

The difference, I think, is that men tend to live more in the present.
So, in the old days: that bloke annoyed me, so I'll shoot him. No gun? I'll hit him, and then he'll either be dead (now that's the past, I've already forgotten about him) or still standing on his legs, in which case I'll shake his hand. He got the public whipping he deserved, I won't bear a grudge.

Now, women: Sarima is right in her analysis, in a traditional society women are limited to a passive role within the home, so wounds fester.

Before this passage, Sarima had already attracted my attention from what we learnt about Fyiero's thoughts during his affair with Elphaba.
And here we return to a theme that is always worth studying: powerful men.
We understood that Prince Fyiero 's home life was not exactly wonderful, so to escape it he would go on a trip now and then. He would spend a few months in town, have a good time with his chums at the club, and perhaps have a love affair. After a while he would realize that he shouldn't have left his wife and children for so long, so he'd send them presents, and stay a few more months in town.

On his return (but this time he didn't return) he would have been in the mood to be a good husband and a good father (for a while), and would have been surprised and saddened by his wife's cold welcome. After all, he was bearing no grudges!

Now let's leave traditional societies and look at the modern world: if you are a man and bear a grudge, how do you act on it? Guns are still availale in some parts of the world, but are not seen as the answer to everyday problems. Fists? Well, again, usually not. This leaves: the shouting match, with all sorts of colourful language.
Women also use language (but not guns or fists), but will often not feel comfortable with swearing, so other types of language weapons will be used.
And if you don't have a shouting match, there's revenge, nowadays in the form of revenge at work or the super business deal that is going to crush your opponent for the next 10 years. No words will be used, but the two parties concerned will know exactly what this was about. This goes for both sexes, since both now operate in the same world.

Now, as far as not bearing grudges, not being mean, having a forgiving spirit... Some people have that capacity, and once you remove the traditional roles imposed on both sexes I suppose who has more generosity of spirit must be a question of personality rather than gender.

My intuition says this though: men still live in the present more than women, and women are better at taking into account past, present and future in their personal lives.
(Obviously some are not, and some women are forever the gullible preys of smooth talkers).

If, when you are asked for forgiveness, or just expected to forgive, you can consider, not just the harm that has been done to you, but the fact that the same thing happened in the past from the same person and in all probability will happen again, the whole idea of putting all this behind you becomes much more complex.

Not bearing a grudge then would require the patience of a saint, or the unstoppable forward motion of the optimist.

Now, if you take this one step further, and consider the behaviour of humanity over the years (rather than the one person who had done something to you), and you know that such behaviour has happened before and will happen again ... Not bearing grudges then becomes so complex that I think humans have needed religions to help them grasp such possibilities, and otherwise individual answers are what they are, ie not necessarily very satisfactory.

Ophelia · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject: NANNY IS BACK!

NANNY IS BACK!

When things might have been getting a bit dull, the uncomparable Nanny makes a comeback.

Pages 381 and following, she tells Elphaba everything about her family.

p 382: Nanny stopped, muddled. "Or was that elixir to prevent her next child from being born green?".

I think there is at times in Wicked a tone that I find difficult to define. I struggle with " crazy", "outrageous"...

I have a feeling that this tone or technique has been used before, and explained before, only I don't know those books.

Help???

Perhaps in South American literature?

Ophelia · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject:

I'm trying to think of words to describe the scene with Nanny mentioned above.

1- The contrary of "showing restraint".

In literature, the contrary of a world with Nanny would be the world of Jane Austen.

Nanny is an earthy character (almost bawdy at times?).

2- I've thought of "burlesque" for some aspects of the novel.

" a literary or dramatic work that seeks to ridicule by means of grotesque exaggeration or comic imitation."
Merriam-Webster.

Tammy, we haven't heard much from you on the Wicked threads lately.
I hope it just means that you're busy, not that I've written anything to annoy you.


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