Robert Tulip wrote:

DB Roy wrote:

Flann 5 wrote: Typical misuse of scripture D.B. It's a parable where God is the master and we are or should be his slaves.

And if we don't want to?

There is a famous line from Hegel that 'freedom is the recognition of necessity'.

The Christian view is that if we are slaves to necessity, (which I argue means cosmic order), we achieve a higher freedom.

If we don't want to be aligned to cosmic order (which is what being a slave of God really means) then we cut loose from our moorings in reality.

You're giving Christians WAY too much credit here. They have no capability to think in such lofty terms. Few of them have any idea of who Hegel is. To them, being a slave to god is to be a slave to their interpretation of the bible--period. Don't kid yourself. That would be a serious mistake.

Flann 5 wrote:
In that case you will be judged by God on whether you obeyed or disobeyed his commandments and of course you are rejecting the sacrificial means of atonement for sins that he has provided.

Your own conscience tells you what is right and wrong also and your own thoughts and internal judgements form a basis of moral judgement. As Paul says we judge others based on a moral standard we consider good and bad. The question is whether we consistently keep these moral standards we apply to others ourselves?

I don't know in what moral universe good should not be rewarded and evil punished by the creator, never mind human judges.

You're contradicting yourself by saying I'll be judged by whether I obeyed your god's commandments and then telling me I have a conscience that tells me what right and wrong is. I will agree that my internal value system is the seat of my morality but that's all there is. If I am unable to apply my moral standards to myself as I apply them to others then I am a moral defective and that's it. Your god's commandments can't help me. The moral MUST be the chosen not what is commanded. Neither you nor you god can command me to be moral. If I have to be commanded to be moral then I am already not moral.

Buddhists understand this which is why they have the concept of karma. Human judges cant punish you for transgressions if you're never caught yet it's too painful to think that someone could commit a heinous act, never be caught and never suffer any consequence. So there is cosmic justice system that says you never get away with it, you have to pay up somehow, some way. You're just saying the same thing except you're saying that your god will carry out the judgment.

But this is all beside the point of being a slave. Your god holding me a slave it itself immoral. My unwillingness to be such a slave should make a moral god that supposedly created me beam with pride. If this deity gets angry over that then it is a control freak, an abusive parent, especially if the punishment is to be beaten with many bruises whether literally or figuratively. I have no use for any religion that demands its followers be slaves whether to a flesh-and-blood human being or to some pretend spook in the sky. It's a sham concocted for control--brainwashing and control. Any system that wants me to kneel or bow down and submit is a dirty, rotten, flaunting lie. No, I will not be a slave to your god, I will not follow your god's commandments. Those are just the words of some stupid priest pressing his church's agenda. I have a brain of my own and I presume there is a reason why we have brains and it's not to never use them.