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What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Harold Camping is preaching that the Rapture will be happening on May 21, 2011. Of course he doesn't tell us the time zone in which God resides so we cannot be sure of the precise time for each of us personally.
This thread will remain open, but the poll will end on May 22, 2011. I'm looking for your predictions on what he will say when he is proven wrong. I'll post in this thread his actual response when it happens. Or maybe we'll all be dead.
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Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
You forgot the option that the Rapture actually happens. He sounds pretty confident.
A variation on one of the choices - You never hear from him again as he and his family count their donations. In the second video, it sounds like he might be raking in the cash, and there's a no-return policy.
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Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Who cares what he has to say?! Are you aware that the Bible specifically says that we are not to speculate about dates for eschatological events? People like Camping are hacks. They are trying to make a buck and should be ignored. As for the larger issue which this thread raises, albeit tacitly; let me contradict it; just because Camping or Rutherford, or ... claims to be a Christian, sets a date and is wrong is no reason to dismiss the Rapture.
Do you really care about Camping or his prediction? Isn't this tread intended to mock Christians? Why the continued obsession with God and Christianity here at BT? Do you really think Anthony Hopkins is an expert on religion or do you quote him because his statement confirms the beliefs of the patron saints of atheism?
_________________ “I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]
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Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
stahrwe wrote:
Who cares what he has to say?! Are you aware that the Bible specifically says that we are not to speculate about dates for eschatological events? People like Camping are hacks. They are trying to make a buck and should be ignored. As for the larger issue which this thread raises, albeit tacitly; let me contradict it; just because Camping or Rutherford, or ... claims to be a Christian, sets a date and is wrong is no reason to dismiss the Rapture.
Do you really care about Camping or his prediction? Isn't this tread intended to mock Christians? Why the continued obsession with God and Christianity here at BT? Do you really think Anthony Hopkins is an expert on religion or do you quote him because his statement confirms the beliefs of the patron saints of atheism?
To those of us who are outside the religious belief system, all religious certainty appears equally absurd. Your conclusion that Camping is a hack is a good example of the pot calling the kettle black. Your viewpoint is hopelessly biased by your own particular strain of ridiculousness. It reminds me of Will Smith defending his involvement with scientology by saying it is no more ridiculous than Christianity. He actually makes a good point.
Likewise, anyone who is so entrenched in one particular religious strain can never be an expert on religion in general as you so well demonstrate. They are much too emotionally biased.
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Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Stahrwe, Harold Camping makes just as much sense as you do. As Geo said you calling Harold Camping a "hack" is humorous and like the pot calling the kettle black. You actually disregard all of science to support your young Earth creationism while Camping simply adds a bunch of dates and comes up with a Rapture date. Camping seems FAR more rational than you right now.
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Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Chris OConnor wrote:
Stahrwe, Harold Camping makes just as much sense as you do. As Geo said you calling Harold Camping a "hack" is humorous and like the pot calling the kettle black. You actually disregard all of science to support your young Earth creationism while Camping simply adds a bunch of dates and comes up with a Rapture date. Camping seems FAR more rational than you right now.
In the context which I use the term 'hack' it is someone who exploits celebrity by churning books, articles, interviews, etc. for profit. It therefore has no relation to a person's beliefs. Camping is far more rational in what respect? I suspect he is a YEC removing that differentiation and as I have not set dates and do not support annihilation I question the basis for your assessment.
_________________ “I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]
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Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
To a limited extent, I agree with starhwe, in that the use to which anyone puts his or her beliefs is the important real-world effect of those beliefs. Stahrwe believes in the rapture just as Camping does, but he doesn't make a ridiculous public spectacle of himself and irresponsibly get vulnerable people all excited (and later, upset) by setting dates. Advantage stahrwe.
Regarding what I would call weird beliefs--like YEC, but also including astrology, homeopathy, astral travel, scientology, and a host of others--there isn't usually a moral reason to condemn these. I would except something like beliefs in racial supremacy. People make choices to value their intuitions or fancies over what can be demonstrated to be true. Many of us don't like this, and we might believe, further, that it is socially harmful and should be actively opposed. But all we really can do about that is to make sure we are good positive advocates for our own values. When we see that people are beginning to enact their weird beliefs in a way that affects others, then we should oppose those people. The best example I can think of is creationist school board members trying to insert ID into the science curriculum.
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Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
DWill wrote:
To a limited extent, I agree with starhwe, in that the use to which anyone puts his or her beliefs is the important real-world effect of those beliefs. Stahrwe believes in the rapture just as Camping does, but he doesn't make a ridiculous public spectacle of himself and irresponsibly get vulnerable people all excited (and later, upset) by setting dates. Advantage stahrwe.
Regarding what I would call weird beliefs--like YEC, but also including astrology, homeopathy, astral travel, scientology, and a host of others--there isn't usually a moral reason to condemn these. I would except something like beliefs in racial supremacy. People make choices to value their intuitions or fancies over what can be demonstrated to be true. Many of us don't like this, and we might believe, further, that it is socially harmful and should be actively opposed. But all we really can do about that is to make sure we are good positive advocates for our own values. When we see that people are beginning to enact their weird beliefs in a way that affects others, then we should oppose those people. The best example I can think of is creationist school board members trying to insert ID into the science curriculum.
I agree with DWill. I do pick on Stahrwe, but at least he knows well enough not to set a date for the Rapture. I wonder if Camping is just hoping for a surge of pre-Rapture donations. He makes it pretty clear in the second video (when questioned) that he won't need to return donations if the Rapture doesn't happen because it absolutely will. One might wonder here why he needs donations at all if the Rapture is coming. He might as well shut down the funding arm of his ministry.
Certain other televangelists have set dates as well. I wonder how they weaseled out of it.
It is interesting to see how the different strains of religion have set different levels of credulity in their tenets. YECists deny evolution which certainly must limit their numbers to only the most credulous of True Believers. The Pope is on record as saying that it's okay to accept evolution, but the Catholic Church still maintains that Jesus was born of a virgin and performed miracles and that during mass transubstantiation takes place. Scientologists for that matter probably accept evolution as well. They would have no reason not to.
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Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
DWill wrote:
Regarding what I would call weird beliefs--like YEC, but also including astrology, homeopathy, astral travel, scientology, and a host of others--there isn't usually a moral reason to condemn these. I would except something like beliefs in racial supremacy. People make choices to value their intuitions or fancies over what can be demonstrated to be true. Many of us don't like this, and we might believe, further, that it is socially harmful and should be actively opposed. But all we really can do about that is to make sure we are good positive advocates for our own values. When we see that people are beginning to enact their weird beliefs in a way that affects others, then we should oppose those people. The best example I can think of is creationist school board members trying to insert ID into the science curriculum.
I did thank your post mainly because you stood against astrotheology et al and doing so at BT has been remarkly absent.
Your linking of YEC and ID is tenuous as ID people tend to differentiate themselfs from YEC and vice/versa.
There is nothing 'weird' about YEC. It may be out of favor at present but it was a dominent belief for some time and may be again.
_________________ “I think one of [James Hoffmeier’s] most important points is that we have unrealistic expectations for what archaeology can offer us as far as ‘proving’ Exodus: ‘After all, what evidence, short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating “bricks made by Hebrew slaves” would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt. Archaeology’s ability … is quite limited.’” Jeff Lambert, Editorial Associate, Biblical Archaeological Review. via email January 26, 2010 8:20:58 AM. [email receipiant redacted for privacy reasons. See Thread-The Bible's Buried Secrets for full text.]
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Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Stahrwe wrote:
There is nothing 'weird' about YEC. It may be out of favor at present but it was a dominent belief for some time and may be again.
Out of favor at the moment? LOL Are you kidding me!?
Geocentrism was a dominant belief for some time too, but now it is "out of favor." What do you think the chances are that we will return to thinking the Earth is the center of the universe?
Do you see spontaneous generation returning to the stage in the future?
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Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
geo wrote:
[ It is interesting to see how the different strains of religion have set different levels of credulity in their tenets. YECists deny evolution which certainly must limit their numbers to only the most credulous of True Believers. The Pope is on record as saying that it's okay to accept evolution, but the Catholic Church still maintains that Jesus was born of a virgin and performed miracles and that during mass transubstantiation takes place. Scientologists for that matter probably accept evolution as well. They would have no reason not to.
I think the Church also says that at some point God did inject moral sense into humans, at what point in their evolution I have no idea. This doesn't make sense, along with the whole "theistic evolution" idea, but it's something to be grateful for. Otherwise, we'd have a lot more trouble from creationist intruding than we do have. It's all about reasonable compromise in a pluralistic society.
I once attended a debate sponsored by a large, very strict Bible church in my area. It was years ago, before I was so much into topics like this, but I believe that representing the atheist view was Massimo Pigliucci. In the course of the debate it came out that the fundamentalist actually had more respect for the atheist than he had for so-called Christians who allowed wiggle-room for evolution. This seemed strange to me; I couldn't understand why any Christian would denigrate another, since presumably the beliefs have a large area of commonality between sects. Maybe stahrwe can comment.
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Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Stahrwe:
Quote:
Do you really care about Camping or his prediction? Isn't this tread intended to mock Christians? Why the continued obsession with God and Christianity here at BT?
The forums at Booktalk are for the enjoyment/edification/education of those members who choose to engage in them. No member is compelled to participate. One could wonder why a Christian participates so heavily in a forum dedicated to atheism and free thought.
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