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What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur? 

What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Poll ended at Sun May 22, 2011 1:42 am
After May 21st he will admit he made an error and is not sure where he went wrong with his math. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
After May 21st he will admit an error but suddenly see his error and change the date so the waiting game can continue. 37%  37%  [ 7 ]
After May 21st he will claim it HAS happened in a peculiar way that only him and select people can perceive. 16%  16%  [ 3 ]
Before May 21, 2011 he will bump the date back after "discovering" a small error is his math. 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
Harold is over 90 years old and probably won't live till May 21, 2011. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
After May 21st Harold will take his own life in embarrassment or in an effort to create his own Rapture. 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
After May 21st he will keep his mouth shut in embarrassment and give no explanations or excuses. 16%  16%  [ 3 ]
Other - explain your prediction. 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 19

What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur? 
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 What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Harold Camping is preaching that the Rapture will be happening on May 21, 2011. Of course he doesn't tell us the time zone in which God resides so we cannot be sure of the precise time for each of us personally.





http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... d=rss.news

This thread will remain open, but the poll will end on May 22, 2011. I'm looking for your predictions on what he will say when he is proven wrong. I'll post in this thread his actual response when it happens. Or maybe we'll all be dead. :o



Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:57 am
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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
You forgot the option that the Rapture actually happens. He sounds pretty confident.

A variation on one of the choices - You never hear from him again as he and his family count their donations. In the second video, it sounds like he might be raking in the cash, and there's a no-return policy.



Last edited by Dexter on Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.



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One more post ought to do it.

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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
He'll say God changed his mind because x happened.

This gives him a good out while maintaining the delusion that he knows what "God" wants.


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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Who cares what he has to say?! Are you aware that the Bible specifically says that we are not to speculate about dates for eschatological events? People like Camping are hacks. They are trying to make a buck and should be ignored. As for the larger issue which this thread raises, albeit tacitly; let me contradict it; just because Camping or Rutherford, or ... claims to be a Christian, sets a date and is wrong is no reason to dismiss the Rapture.

Do you really care about Camping or his prediction? Isn't this tread intended to mock Christians? Why the continued obsession with God and Christianity here at BT? Do you really think Anthony Hopkins is an expert on religion or do you quote him because his statement confirms the beliefs of the patron saints of atheism?


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Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:41 am
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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
stahrwe wrote:
Who cares what he has to say?! Are you aware that the Bible specifically says that we are not to speculate about dates for eschatological events? People like Camping are hacks. They are trying to make a buck and should be ignored. As for the larger issue which this thread raises, albeit tacitly; let me contradict it; just because Camping or Rutherford, or ... claims to be a Christian, sets a date and is wrong is no reason to dismiss the Rapture.

Do you really care about Camping or his prediction? Isn't this tread intended to mock Christians? Why the continued obsession with God and Christianity here at BT? Do you really think Anthony Hopkins is an expert on religion or do you quote him because his statement confirms the beliefs of the patron saints of atheism?


To those of us who are outside the religious belief system, all religious certainty appears equally absurd. Your conclusion that Camping is a hack is a good example of the pot calling the kettle black. Your viewpoint is hopelessly biased by your own particular strain of ridiculousness. It reminds me of Will Smith defending his involvement with scientology by saying it is no more ridiculous than Christianity. He actually makes a good point.

Likewise, anyone who is so entrenched in one particular religious strain can never be an expert on religion in general as you so well demonstrate. They are much too emotionally biased.


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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Stahrwe, Harold Camping makes just as much sense as you do. As Geo said you calling Harold Camping a "hack" is humorous and like the pot calling the kettle black. You actually disregard all of science to support your young Earth creationism while Camping simply adds a bunch of dates and comes up with a Rapture date. Camping seems FAR more rational than you right now.



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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Chris OConnor wrote:
Stahrwe, Harold Camping makes just as much sense as you do. As Geo said you calling Harold Camping a "hack" is humorous and like the pot calling the kettle black. You actually disregard all of science to support your young Earth creationism while Camping simply adds a bunch of dates and comes up with a Rapture date. Camping seems FAR more rational than you right now.


In the context which I use the term 'hack' it is someone who exploits celebrity by churning books, articles, interviews, etc. for profit. It therefore has no relation to a person's beliefs. Camping is far more rational in what respect? I suspect he is a YEC removing that differentiation and as I have not set dates and do not support annihilation I question the basis for your assessment.


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Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:59 am
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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
I'll reword it. Harold Camping doesn't appear any more irrational than you.



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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
To a limited extent, I agree with starhwe, in that the use to which anyone puts his or her beliefs is the important real-world effect of those beliefs. Stahrwe believes in the rapture just as Camping does, but he doesn't make a ridiculous public spectacle of himself and irresponsibly get vulnerable people all excited (and later, upset) by setting dates. Advantage stahrwe.

Regarding what I would call weird beliefs--like YEC, but also including astrology, homeopathy, astral travel, scientology, and a host of others--there isn't usually a moral reason to condemn these. I would except something like beliefs in racial supremacy. People make choices to value their intuitions or fancies over what can be demonstrated to be true. Many of us don't like this, and we might believe, further, that it is socially harmful and should be actively opposed. But all we really can do about that is to make sure we are good positive advocates for our own values. When we see that people are beginning to enact their weird beliefs in a way that affects others, then we should oppose those people. The best example I can think of is creationist school board members trying to insert ID into the science curriculum.


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Last edited by DWill on Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
DWill wrote:
To a limited extent, I agree with starhwe, in that the use to which anyone puts his or her beliefs is the important real-world effect of those beliefs. Stahrwe believes in the rapture just as Camping does, but he doesn't make a ridiculous public spectacle of himself and irresponsibly get vulnerable people all excited (and later, upset) by setting dates. Advantage stahrwe.

Regarding what I would call weird beliefs--like YEC, but also including astrology, homeopathy, astral travel, scientology, and a host of others--there isn't usually a moral reason to condemn these. I would except something like beliefs in racial supremacy. People make choices to value their intuitions or fancies over what can be demonstrated to be true. Many of us don't like this, and we might believe, further, that it is socially harmful and should be actively opposed. But all we really can do about that is to make sure we are good positive advocates for our own values. When we see that people are beginning to enact their weird beliefs in a way that affects others, then we should oppose those people. The best example I can think of is creationist school board members trying to insert ID into the science curriculum.


I agree with DWill. I do pick on Stahrwe, but at least he knows well enough not to set a date for the Rapture. I wonder if Camping is just hoping for a surge of pre-Rapture donations. He makes it pretty clear in the second video (when questioned) that he won't need to return donations if the Rapture doesn't happen because it absolutely will. One might wonder here why he needs donations at all if the Rapture is coming. He might as well shut down the funding arm of his ministry.

Certain other televangelists have set dates as well. I wonder how they weaseled out of it.

It is interesting to see how the different strains of religion have set different levels of credulity in their tenets. YECists deny evolution which certainly must limit their numbers to only the most credulous of True Believers. The Pope is on record as saying that it's okay to accept evolution, but the Catholic Church still maintains that Jesus was born of a virgin and performed miracles and that during mass transubstantiation takes place. Scientologists for that matter probably accept evolution as well. They would have no reason not to.


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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
DWill wrote:
Regarding what I would call weird beliefs--like YEC, but also including astrology, homeopathy, astral travel, scientology, and a host of others--there isn't usually a moral reason to condemn these. I would except something like beliefs in racial supremacy. People make choices to value their intuitions or fancies over what can be demonstrated to be true. Many of us don't like this, and we might believe, further, that it is socially harmful and should be actively opposed. But all we really can do about that is to make sure we are good positive advocates for our own values. When we see that people are beginning to enact their weird beliefs in a way that affects others, then we should oppose those people. The best example I can think of is creationist school board members trying to insert ID into the science curriculum.


I did thank your post mainly because you stood against astrotheology et al and doing so at BT has been remarkly absent.

Your linking of YEC and ID is tenuous as ID people tend to differentiate themselfs from YEC and vice/versa.

There is nothing 'weird' about YEC. It may be out of favor at present but it was a dominent belief for some time and may be again.


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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Stahrwe wrote:
There is nothing 'weird' about YEC. It may be out of favor at present but it was a dominent belief for some time and may be again.


Out of favor at the moment? LOL Are you kidding me!?

Geocentrism was a dominant belief for some time too, but now it is "out of favor." What do you think the chances are that we will return to thinking the Earth is the center of the universe?

Do you see spontaneous generation returning to the stage in the future?



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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
geo wrote:
[
It is interesting to see how the different strains of religion have set different levels of credulity in their tenets. YECists deny evolution which certainly must limit their numbers to only the most credulous of True Believers. The Pope is on record as saying that it's okay to accept evolution, but the Catholic Church still maintains that Jesus was born of a virgin and performed miracles and that during mass transubstantiation takes place. Scientologists for that matter probably accept evolution as well. They would have no reason not to.

I think the Church also says that at some point God did inject moral sense into humans, at what point in their evolution I have no idea. This doesn't make sense, along with the whole "theistic evolution" idea, but it's something to be grateful for. Otherwise, we'd have a lot more trouble from creationist intruding than we do have. It's all about reasonable compromise in a pluralistic society.

I once attended a debate sponsored by a large, very strict Bible church in my area. It was years ago, before I was so much into topics like this, but I believe that representing the atheist view was Massimo Pigliucci. In the course of the debate it came out that the fundamentalist actually had more respect for the atheist than he had for so-called Christians who allowed wiggle-room for evolution. This seemed strange to me; I couldn't understand why any Christian would denigrate another, since presumably the beliefs have a large area of commonality between sects. Maybe stahrwe can comment.


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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
Stahrwe:

Quote:
Do you really care about Camping or his prediction? Isn't this tread intended to mock Christians? Why the continued obsession with God and Christianity here at BT?


The forums at Booktalk are for the enjoyment/edification/education of those members who choose to engage in them. No member is compelled to participate. One could wonder why a Christian participates so heavily in a forum dedicated to atheism and free thought.



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Post Re: What will Harold Camping say after May 21, 2011 when the Rapture doesn't occur?
stahrwe wrote:
DWill wrote:
weird beliefs--like YEC, but also including astrology, homeopathy, astral travel, scientology, and a host of others.

you stood against astrotheology .


I don't think so. DWill did not mention astrotheology.

Tat and I had a discussion about Camping at http://freethoughtnation.com/forums/vie ... 01&start=0



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Atheist Mind, Humanist Heart - by Lex Bayer and John FigdorSense and Goodness Without God - by Richard CarrierFrankenstein - by Mary ShelleyThe Big Questions - by Simon BlackburnScience Was Born of Christianity - by Stacy TrasancosThe Happiness Hypothesis - by Jonathan HaidtA Game of Thrones - by George R. R. MartinTempesta's Dream - by Vincent LoCocoWhy Nations Fail - by Daron Acemoglu and James RobinsonThe Drowning Girl - Caitlin R. KiernanThe Consolations of the Forest - by Sylvain TessonThe Complete Heretic's Guide to Western Religion: The Mormons - by David FitzgeraldA Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man - by James JoyceThe Divine Comedy - by Dante AlighieriThe Magic of Reality - by Richard DawkinsDubliners - by James JoyceMy Name Is Red - by Orhan PamukThe World Until Yesterday - by Jared DiamondThe Man Who Was Thursday - by by G. K. ChestertonThe Better Angels of Our Nature by Steven PinkerLord Jim by Joseph ConradThe Hobbit by J. R. R. TolkienThe Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas AdamsAtlas Shrugged by Ayn RandThinking, Fast and Slow - by Daniel KahnemanThe Righteous Mind - by Jonathan HaidtWorld War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max BrooksMoby Dick: or, the Whale by Herman MelvilleA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganLost Memory of Skin: A Novel by Russell BanksThe Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas S. KuhnHobbes: Leviathan by Thomas HobbesThe House of the Spirits - by Isabel AllendeArguably: Essays by Christopher HitchensThe Falls: A Novel (P.S.) by Joyce Carol OatesChrist in Egypt by D.M. MurdockThe Glass Bead Game: A Novel by Hermann HesseA Devil's Chaplain by Richard DawkinsThe Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph CampbellThe Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor DostoyevskyThe Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark TwainThe Moral Landscape by Sam HarrisThe Decameron by Giovanni BoccaccioThe Road by Cormac McCarthyThe Grand Design by Stephen HawkingThe Evolution of God by Robert WrightThe Tin Drum by Gunter GrassGood Omens by Neil GaimanPredictably Irrational by Dan ArielyThe Wind-Up Bird Chronicle: A Novel by Haruki MurakamiALONE: Orphaned on the Ocean by Richard Logan & Tere Duperrault FassbenderDon Quixote by Miguel De CervantesMusicophilia by Oliver SacksDiary of a Madman and Other Stories by Nikolai GogolThe Passion of the Western Mind by Richard TarnasThe Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le GuinThe Genius of the Beast by Howard BloomAlice's Adventures in Wonderland by Lewis Carroll Empire of Illusion by Chris HedgesThe Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner The Extended Phenotype by Richard DawkinsSmoke and Mirrors by Neil GaimanThe Selfish Gene by Richard DawkinsWhen Good Thinking Goes Bad by Todd C. RinioloHouse of Leaves by Mark Z. DanielewskiAmerican Gods: A Novel by Neil GaimanPrimates and Philosophers by Frans de WaalThe Enormous Room by E.E. CummingsThe Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar WildeGod Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher HitchensThe Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama Paradise Lost by John Milton Bad Money by Kevin PhillipsThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettGodless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists by Dan BarkerThe Things They Carried by Tim O'BrienThe Limits of Power by Andrew BacevichLolita by Vladimir NabokovOrlando by Virginia Woolf On Being Certain by Robert A. Burton50 reasons people give for believing in a god by Guy P. HarrisonWalden: Or, Life in the Woods by Henry David ThoreauExile and the Kingdom by Albert CamusOur Inner Ape by Frans de WaalYour Inner Fish by Neil ShubinNo Country for Old Men by Cormac McCarthyThe Age of American Unreason by Susan JacobyTen Theories of Human Nature by Leslie Stevenson & David HabermanHeart of Darkness by Joseph ConradThe Stuff of Thought by Stephen PinkerA Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled HosseiniThe Lucifer Effect by Philip ZimbardoResponsibility and Judgment by Hannah ArendtInterventions by Noam ChomskyGodless in America by George A. RickerReligious Expression and the American Constitution by Franklyn S. HaimanDeep Economy by Phil McKibbenThe God Delusion by Richard DawkinsThe Third Chimpanzee by Jared DiamondThe Woman in the Dunes by Abe KoboEvolution vs. Creationism by Eugenie C. ScottThe Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael PollanI, Claudius by Robert GravesBreaking The Spell by Daniel C. DennettA Peace to End All Peace by David FromkinThe Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey NiffeneggerThe End of Faith by Sam HarrisEnder's Game by Orson Scott CardThe Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark HaddonValue and Virtue in a Godless Universe by Erik J. WielenbergThe March by E. L DoctorowThe Ethical Brain by Michael GazzanigaFreethinkers: A History of American Secularism by Susan JacobyCollapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared DiamondThe Battle for God by Karen ArmstrongThe Future of Life by Edward O. WilsonWhat is Good? by A. C. GraylingCivilization and Its Enemies by Lee HarrisPale Blue Dot by Carl SaganHow We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael ShermerLooking for Spinoza by Antonio DamasioLies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them by Al FrankenThe Red Queen by Matt RidleyThe Blank Slate by Stephen PinkerUnweaving the Rainbow by Richard DawkinsAtheism: A Reader edited by S.T. JoshiGlobal Brain by Howard BloomThe Lucifer Principle by Howard BloomGuns, Germs and Steel by Jared DiamondThe Demon-Haunted World by Carl SaganBury My Heart at Wounded Knee by Dee BrownFuture Shock by Alvin Toffler

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