What religion would you join if you HAD to join 1?

Chris OConnor

What religion would you join if you HAD to join 1?

You can't pick any other than what I have chosen here. So no Bhuddism folks. ::204

Results (total votes = 15):


Mormonism	2 / 13.3%

Catholicism	8 / 53.3%

Jehova h's Witness	0 / 0.0%

Scientology	4 / 26.7%

Pentacostal&nb sp	1 / 6.7%

Chris OConnor

I'd be a Mormon. Even though Mormonism is complete bullshit, the church experience is kinda fun and the people are pretty decent.

Mr. Pessimistic

I would just kill myself.

Mr. P.
::72

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

riverc0il

I hate to say it, but I am with Mr. P on this one, those just aren't acceptable choices. :242

GOD defiles Reason

It just doesn't make any sense that a freethinking community would limit it's options to fundamentalists and kinda crazy groups like that. I'm sure there are more reasonable options open to us.

I went to a church nearby a while back to see a folk singer perform. It was a Unitarian Universalist church, and I actually liked the literature I found there. They accept atheists, agnostics and humanists as well as Christians, Buddhists, Pagans and god knows what else. I did notice that they had Darwin's' 'Origin of Species' in their library.

Forgive me for thinking outside the box.

Dissident Heart

I would join the Catholic community. I have a few very good friends who are Catholic and I have always been impressed by the ways in which their faith has mobilized and sustained them. Two of them are Nuns and one is a Franciscan scholar/teacher. The Nuns have spent a lifetime serving refugees from Central America and Mexico; and the Francisan is busy teaching English as a Second Language in SE San Diego.

They participate in that Catholic tradition which begins with a preferential treatment of the poor, feeding of the hungry, protecting of the sojourn, and mending the sick. They are all inspiring fellow travellers with Catholic activists like Bishop Oscar Romero, Daniel Barrigan, Dorothy Day, Cesar Chavez, Rosemary Ruether, and organizations like Pax Christi

Quote:
Pax Christi USA strives to create a world that reflects the Peace of Christ by exploring, articulating, and witnessing to the call of Christian nonviolence. This work begins in personal life and extends to communities of reflection and action to transform structures of society. Pax Christi USA rejects war, preparations for war, and every form of violence and domination. It advocates primacy of conscience, economic and social justice, and respect for creation.

Pax Christi USA commits itself to peace education and, with the help of its bishop members, promotes the gospel imperative of peacemaking as a priority in the Catholic Church in the United States. Through the efforts of all its members and in cooperation with other groups, Pax Christi USA works toward a more peaceful, just, and sustainable world.

Likewise, some of my favorite scholars of religion are Catholic, like John Dominic Crossan, Hans Kung, Gustavo Gutierrez, and Catherine LaCugna.

Furthermore, some of the most impressive moments of worship I have experienced happened during a Catholic Mass. And I have enjoyed many meals at the tables of Catholic families who shared a gratitude for a bounty they saw as a gift from God, to be shared with hospitality and conviviality.

Mr. Pessimistic

Quote:
I hate to say it, but I am with Mr. P on this one

Sorry it pains you so much to agree with me.

Mr. P.

::72

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.

The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"

I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Chris OConnor

God defiles Reason

Quote:
It just doesn't make any sense that a freethinking community would limit it's options to fundamentalists and kinda crazy groups like that. I'm sure there are more reasonable options open to us.

The whole point of this thread was not to pick "reasonable options," but to see which of the provided religions is the most attractive to each individual. Obviously, NONE of these is preferable. Had I provided some "reasonable options" this thread would be rather boring. The whole point was to pick strict religions, not ones that mesh with a freethinking worldview. This thread for for fun and discussion, not for an actual forced migration from freethinking to religion.

riverc0il

Quote:
Sorry it pains you so much to agree with me.

i meant it pained me to say that i would rather kill myself, not that it pains me to agree with you.

tarav

I'd do Mormonism only if I could have multiple husbands instead of multiple wives!

MadArchitect

Multiple wives makes sense, but multiple husbands? That's crazy talk!

Niall001

Chris, let me tell you something as a *cough* fully practicing Catholic. You know jack shit about Catholicism.

The reason that I can say that is because even the vast majority of Catholics know jack shit about Catholicism.

Even, I, Niall the all-knowing, don't know everything about Catholicism.

It is just such a wide church. You may have been to plenty of masses in your time, but that doesn't actually mean anything. I've been to a an uncountable number of masses.

The fact is that Catholicism is probably the broadest church "out there" in regards the different practices, philosophies and views.

You've been to a few hundred masses in maybe a few different American parishes, and I'd hazzard a guess and say that those masses were pretty much all the same.

Right now, I go to three different churches for masses, and all three churches represent very different experiences. For instance, in one mass in my local church we currently have a retired missionary priest from Zimbabwe. The man is used to three hour long masses that involve long periods of dance and song and so spends much of the mass dressed in traditional African gear skipping all over the place. He's also had quite a few people in to talk about the AIDS problem in Zimbabwe and Mugabe.

The second church that I go to is different. The priest takes a more philosophical approach. His sermons tend to be various philosophers and their relationship to the theme of the readings. Nietzsche, Plato, St. Augustine, Orwell (not really philosopher), Aristotle and Wittgenstein have been the guest stars over the last few weeks.

The third mass I attend has a nice enough young chap who gives a "family mass". He spends half the time talking about sports. It's really trying to help young kids understand the mass. Fine for what it is. The main reason I'd attend this mass is because I was out the night before and slept in. I'm also generally hung over if attending this mass.

My general point is that, until relatively recently I'd only ever encounter one type of mass and while I found that satisfying in its own way, some times I just couldn't connect. Since then, I've encountered different traditions within Catholicism, different interpretations of teachings, different forms of prayer and different philosophies within Cathlolicism and the main thing that this has taught me is that I know very little. And that's without ever touching on the Eastern Orthodox traditions.

Full of Porn*

http://plainofpillars.blogspot.com

MadArchitect

Chris OConnor: I've been to hundreds of Catholic masses and there isn't any exploring going on at all. And I'm a relatively bright person so I'm not "missing" deeper messages.

You're probably not missing anything explicit in the mass, but you may be missing a lot of background that an intellectually invested Catholic would be privy to. What I meant in my original comment is, that the bulk of Western philosophy prior to the Renaissance was built on twin foundations. Part of that foundation was Aritotelian-Ptolemaic; the other part was Catholic. Even during and after the Renaissance, the continuing trend of philsophy was based in large part on the tradition of Catholic-influenced philosophy. As far as I can tell, the only real attempt to repudiate the Catholic elements in Western philosophy came from proponents of the Protestant Reformation. Even Deism, for all its repudiation of the Catholic reliance on Biblical exegesis, borrowed its conception of God from the tradition of Catholic theology which preceded it, and the book that I'm currently reading connects in minute detail the origins of modern atheism in the Deist divergence from orthodox Christianity.

My initial point, though, was merely that the Catholic church has historically provided the foundation for a rich and fruitful philosophical inquiry. To my knowledge, Mormonism, Scientology and the Jehovah's Witnesses have not.

misterpessimistic: The majority are just tape recorders and have no interest or knowledge of anything aside from the ritualism.

I'm fine with the assertion that some Catholics are content to serve as passive receivers of their religion's dogma. There are individuals in every religious, philosophical and political school that never aspire to more than that. But I don't see how you can speak for the majority of Catholics.

I hate ritualism in any form. It is just too prone to become mindlessness.

The more I study ritual, the more I respect it. Our society has made a habit of removing it from its proper context, but there appear to be plenty of societies who have effortlessly avoided that mistake, and which reap the benefits of ritual without letting it bleed over into all aspects of their lives.

Dissident Heart: I suggest you keep trying.

I don't. It doesn't seem to me that Chris is really looking to get out of Mass what a practicing Catholic gets out of it. For that matter, if I were to go to Mass tomorrow, I probably wouldn't be looking to get that out of it. If he has no interest in participating in Catholicism, why waste his time?

What I suggest is that Chris try to recognize that the difference between the practicing Catholic's appreciation of Mass and his appreciation of Mass may be incommensurable. Maybe it would bother him less that there are so many practicing Catholics in the world if he didn't chalk it up to something abberant in their psychology.

Dissident Heart

MA: What I suggest is that Chris try to recognize that the difference between the practicing Catholic's appreciation of Mass and his appreciation of Mass may be incommensurable.

I think Chris already knows this. What I think he is unclear about is the many ways that different Catholics appreciate Mass. It is hardly a uniform experience with everyone in the service thinking and feeling the same way. Hell, each individual changes too, bringing different expectations and drawing different conclusions about Mass over time.

Particular crises, challenges, and breakthroughs bring a different focus, ask different questions, highlight diferent concerns in the lives of those participating. The flux and flow of life are never separate from the dogma and creed of the tradition.

Likewise, the tradition is hardly monolithic. The Franciscans are not Dominicans are not Carmelites are not Jesuits are not Benedictines, etc. There are crucial commonalities, but the differences do matter. My initial suggestion involved exploring more of the diversity in individual Catholics and Catholicism as well.

MA: Maybe it would bother him less that there are so many practicing Catholics in the world if he didn't chalk it up to something abberant in their psychology.

There are more than a few Catholics who would argue that Chris' particular brand of Atheism is a result of something aberrant in his psychology as well. Tit for tat. Eye for an eye. Round and round until everyone is blind.


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