What are the last five books you've read?

NaddiaAoC · Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 1:53 am Post subject: Re: hmm.....

Luke,

What did you think of Atlas Shrugged? I really wanted to read that and went to buy it one day and was like holy smokes! That thing is huge. So I decided to put it off. I do want to read it eventually though.

Have you read any of Ayn Rand's non-fiction? I plan to start reading her Lexicon soon. I don't know much depth about her philosophies but what I do know really interests me.

Cheryl

Kenny Meek · Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 9:48 am Post subject: Ayn Rand

I read The Fountainhead in it's entirety and started Atlas Shrugged, but didn't make it through. They're both long as hell. Ayn Rand's journals are interesting. Her case against altruism could be deemed reasonable by some I suppose.

To me, her philosophy of objectivism starts out reasonably, but by the time it all comes to fruition- which is in the present as translated by her most fervent disciple and adherent Leonard Piekoff(SP?) her(his?) world isn't any better off than it would be under the rule of fundamentalist Christians. That's just my quicky opinion on Ayn Rand. She was one of my first rationalistic reads so I was sort of engrossed at the beginning but as she melded in to my sometimes feeble mind she made less and less sense. I would probably be better off with Ayn Rand had I never read or seen (on TV)Piekoff's interpretations, because he just comes across as arrogant and narrow minded. Her involvement on the Mc Carthy movement is most interesting also. She carried an anti-communist agenda which didn't really do America any favors in terms of civil liberty in a wacked out era. She testified for the Committee against un american commies or whatever they were called and probably helped get the ACLU established.(I'm really kidding about that one...she did testify, but I'm kidding about the ACLU part)

I think Ayn Rand is a must for any critical thinker, good or bad. Always something to think about.

see ya
kenny

rage · Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 6:40 pm Post subject: Atlas Shrugged

While some of the book is a little far-fetched, and some of the ideas presented I don't agree with, over all, it is very well written. The first hundred or so are a bit slow, but after that, I zoomed through it (finished it in a couple of days, reading it after I got off work).

Some of the speaches in there are GREAT. But there are certain problems that you will run into with some of the ideas she presents. (i.e. - she presents a utopian world, but none of the possible faults that it could present, as all utopian worlds do).

Also, she goes to great lengths to make tons of people look like idiots, and it is hard to believe that many people could be THAT stupid.

I would recommend reading it though. I'm looking into finding some of her non-fiction work to read after I finish the fountainhead, so I would be able to better critique her philosophy then.

Kenny Meek · Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 7:09 pm Post subject: The Fountainhead

I'll be interested to hear your opinion on the trial when you get around to it. I think maybe she should have collaborated with John Grisham or something??

Drunkenblade of Kay · Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Ayn Rand

I read Fountainhead, and am currently working up the motivation to dig into Atlas Shrugged, which I incidently bought while in Cincinnati Cheryl.

While her philosophy of individualism is really hard to swallow and lends itself naturally to fanacism, her works of fiction are nonetheless enduring pillars of entertainment. She has an accute understanding of social politics and banter and makes good use of the subtleties of dialogue. The epic subterfuges between Elsworth M. Toohey, and Dominique Francon are engrossingly revolting and commandingly admirable all at the same time. At the very least, you will be entertained and intellectually stimulated, but as Kenny said, you may not be better off as a direct result of her philosophy.

Here's one of my favorite quotes from The Fountainhead:

"I should like you to give that commission to my husband. I understand, of course, that there's no reason why you should do so--unless I agree to sleep with you in exchange. If you consider that a sufficient reason--I am willing to do it"

He looked at her silently, allowing no hint of personal reaction in his face. She sat looking up at him, faintly astonished by his scrutiny, as if her words had deserved no special attention. He could not force on himself, though he was seeking it fiercely, any other impression of her face than the incongruous one of undisturbed purity.

He said: "That is what I was to suggest. But not so crudely and not on our first meeting."

"I have saved you time and lies."

"You love your husband very much?"

"I despise him."

"You have a great faith in his artistic genius?"

"I think he's a third-rate architect."

"Then why are you doing this?"

"It amuses me."

"I thought I was the only one who acted on such motives."

"You shouldn't mind. I don't believe you've ever found originality a desirable virtue, Mr. Wynand."

"Actually, you don't care whether your husband gets Stoneridge or not?"

"No."

"And you have no desire to sleep with me?"

"None at all."

"I could admire a woman who'd put on an act like that. Only it's not an act."

"It's not. Please don't begin admiring me. I have tried to avoid it."

Whenever he smiled no obvious movement was required of his facial muscles; the hint of mockery was always there and it merely came into sharper focus for a moment, to recede imperceptibly again. The focus was sharper now.

"As a matter of fact," he said, "your chief motive is I, after all. The desire to give yourself to me." He saw the glance she could not control and added: "No, don't enjoy the thought that I have fallen into so gross an error. I didn't mean it in the usual sense. But in its exact opposite. Didn't you say you considered me the person before last in the world? You don't want Stoneridge. You want to sell yourself for the lowest motive to the lowest person you can find."

"I didn't expect you to understand that," she said simply.

"You want--men do that sometimes, not women--to express through the sexual act your utter contempt for me."

"No, Mr. Wynand. For myself."

The thin line of his mouth moved faintly, as if his lips had caught the first hint of a personal revelation--an involuntary one and, therefore, a weakness--and were holding it tight while he spoke:

"Most people go to very great lengths in order to convince themselves of their self-respect."

"Yes."

"And, of course, a quest for self-respect is proof of its lack."

"Yes."

"Do you see the meaning of a quest for self-contempt?"

"That I lack it?"

"And that you'll never achieve it."

"I didn't expect you to understand that either."

"I won't say anything else--or I'll stop being the person before last in the world and I'll become unsuitable to your purpose." He rose. "Shall I tell you formally that I accept your offer?"

She inclined her head in agreement.

Edited by: Drunkenblade of Kay at: 11/19/02 6:26:18 pm

rage · Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2002 7:36 pm Post subject: yes...

yes, ayn rand has many great quotes from both her books!

Though the sex scenes are a bit bland..they could be spiced up a bit....lol

DaRk Penguin · Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 3:04 am Post subject: books

I am currently Reading

1. The Culture of Make Belive by Derrick Jensen

2. About A boy by Nick Hornby

3. Guns Germs and Steel

4. The Feeling of What Happens by Damasio

5. The princess bride by Goldman

Kostya V · Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 11:00 pm Post subject: Books

Recently read and current books:

1. The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand
2. Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
3. The Selfish Gene by Dawkins
4. Unweaving the Rainbow by Dawkins
5. Cosmos by Carl Sagan
6. The Meme Machine by Susan Blackmore
7. I am half way thru The Blind Watchmaker by Dawkins

Following books are on order:

1. Freedom from the Known by Jiddu Krishnamurti
2. The Language Instinct : How the Mind Creates Language by Steven Pinker
3. Consciousness Explained by Daniel Dennett

tarav

I just finished reading The Selfish Gene. Chicken Soup for the Teacher's Soul was before that(I'm a teacher--it was a gift!). Then there was Strange Behavior-Tales of Evolutionary Neurology, The Darwin Awards, and Darwin's Dangerous Idea. I also enjoy reading books about dogs, apes, mysteries, and just about anything suggested to me.

curttheprophet

Last five:

River out of Eden by Richard Dawkins
Atheism: The case against God by George H. Smith
Unweaving the Rainbow by Richard Dawkins
A Choice of Enemiesby Mordecai Richler
The Christians as the Romans saw them by Robert Wilken

Currently Reading:

The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan
Requiem for a dream by Hubert Selby Jr.

Jeremy1952

I too tend to jump on recommendations. A member of another list forwarded Shermer's E-SKEPTIC FOR JUNE 11, 2003 which included two book reviews. I immediately ordered Jones, Y, Dennett, Freedom Evolves, Ridley, Nature via Nurture, and Damasio's new book, Looking for Spinoza: Joy, Sorrow, and the Feeling Brain, which is about to come out in paper. I don't remember which two were in Skeptic!

My usual method is to keep one in the bathroom (currently, a collection of essays from The New York Times, Scientists at Work), one in the car (Ludlum, The Sigma Protocol, silly fiction because I ran out of non fiction on tape), and one in my bag, to read at lunch (Re-reading Wilson, Consilience).

I recently finished Ridley, The Origins of Virtue, and Dawkins, A Devil's Chaplain; Unweaving the Rainbow; Miller, The Mating Mind (another Dawkin's recommendation), and Gopkin, Meltzoff, and Kuhl, The Scientist in the Crib. I've also begun and dropped Axelrod, The Complexity of Cooperation (Too technical, I got the point); and Hobbes, Leviathan.

Science is neither a philosophy nor a belief system. It is a combination of mental operations that has become increasingly the habit of educated peoples, a culture of illuminations hit upon by a fortunate turn of history that yielded the most effective way of learning about the real world ever conceived. E.O.Wilson

Jeremy1952 · Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 10:37 am Post subject: Can't you count?

There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count, and those who can't.

I've read the opposite; that attempts to measure weight loss at death have repeatedly failed to find any change at all, down to a tiny fraction of a gram. This may be another case of lying for jeebus.

Science is neither a philosophy nor a belief system. It is a combination of mental operations that has become increasingly the habit of educated peoples, a culture of illuminations hit upon by a fortunate turn of history that yielded the most effective way of learning about the real world ever conceived. E.O.Wilson

wmmurrah · Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2003 6:47 pm Post subject: last five books

My last five books include:

1.Atheism: A Philosophical Justification by Michael Martin. not finished yet.

2. Story by Robert McKee. A book on writing screenplays

3. Anarchy, State, and Utopia by Robert Nozick. Tough read but well worth it. About political philosophy.

4. Religion Explained by Pascal Boyer.

5. For whom the bell tolls Hemingway.

DaRk Penguin

Hey wmmurrah, I've read story by Robert McKee also. You should see the movie Adaptation (written by the guy who did 'being john malcovich' and 'confessions of a dangerous mind'. The movie has nicolas cage going to one of McKee's story seminars. It's very entertaining.

curttheprophet

I wanted to update my list by mentioning a new novel I just started. Cocksure by Mordecai Richler, who's one of my favourite novelists. Read some reviews Also try The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz, which I've read and is excellent, and Barney's Version, which I haven't yet read but my friend Ryan praised to the moon and back.


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