Way of the Master

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:46 am Post subject: Way of the Master

Are you a good person?

Way of the Master

I guess atheists are bad after all!

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

RickU · Junior Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 316 Gender:

What an excellent, but freaky site. Nice find MP.

I of course could only say that I haven't broken 1 commandment. But then again...that could say something about the commandments themselves...

In Vino Veritas

fpla83 · Almost a regular Joined: 01 May 2004 Posts: 40 Gender:

Good and evil do not exist

"Omnia mutandur nos, et mutandur in illis."

RickU · Junior Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 316 Gender:

While my initial reaction is to agree with you...upon reflection I find I disagree.

But this is not an argument that can be resolved with facts. One could argue that even the most heinous of acts isn't "evil".

Even using reason it is (while not easy to define) identify something as "good" as well as identifying something as evil.

Some innocuous examples are: The pasta and sauce I cooked last night = good. Liver = evil tasting.

In Vino Veritas

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Way of the Master

Good and evil exist only when juxtaposed with human conscience.

We create the subjective in an otherwise objective world.

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

RickU · Junior Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 316 Gender:

The argument is no better than the "If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it..." argument.

In Vino Veritas

fpla83 · Almost a regular Joined: 01 May 2004 Posts: 40 Gender:

RickU,

The age old question of if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it does it make a noise is not an unsolvable quandary. It does in fact have an answer and quite a simple one at that. If you refer to Berkeley's Three Dialogues Between Hylas and Philonous you will find this answer. Berkeley clearly illustrates how sensible qualities are not inherent in there source (i.e. the tree that falls) but exist only within the being that perceives these qualities. To make an incredibly long explanation short, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody (or to be technically correct, no sensible being) to hear it it does NOT make a noise. I highly suggest reading Berkeley if you have not already.

As for good and evil rest assured that as they are NOT tangible qualities they do NOT exist within reality. To say that the pasta tastes good or bad does not reaffirm the existence of good and evil within reality whatsoever. To say such a thing tastes good or bad is nothing more than a value judgments. They merely exist
as concepts derived from the mind of humans. Thus it is the same with a number of things such as time, logic, space, morals, etc. (although space and time are labeled as a priori intuitions by Kant).

Mr. Pessimistic · Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Way of the Master

Quote:
Berkeley clearly illustrates how sensible qualities are not inherent in there source (i.e. the tree that falls) but exist only within the being that perceives these qualities. To make an incredibly long explanation short, if a tree falls in the woods and nobody (or to be technically correct, no sensible being) to hear it it does NOT make a noise. I highly suggest reading Berkeley if you have not already.

We can reduce everything to non existence in this way...which leads me to state that existence does not exist.

Seriously, the tree falling moves the air and vibrates the air and ground as it falls and hits. All the intrinsic elements are there to produce sound. Just because a being does not identify it does not mean it did not happen. I assert that no one witnessed the beginning of time, but that happened.

Does it have to be a human that hears the sound of the tree? Or will any animal/biological organism do?

Mr. P.

The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of Pain

HEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. P

fpla83 · Almost a regular Joined: 01 May 2004 Posts: 40 Gender:

Mr. P,

That is precisely the question which causes great confusion. We must first settle on an agreeable definition of sound/noise. If we are to agree that a sensible being (not only a human but any sensible being, thus my restatement of the question in my previous post)is required for a sensation to be present then a sensible being is a key component in what we refer to as sound/noise. Thus, if a sensible being is absent from the situation then all the components of sound/noise are not present. It something other than sound/noise, a fraction of it possibly.

As for the beginning of time, nobody witnessed it but I assure you it did not happen. Nietzsche discusses this in Beyond Good and Evil. In fact many philosophers eastern and western have discussed this. If we are to agree that there is something now and that nothing cannot exist then nothing has never existed nor will it ever. It's impossible thus, something has always existed and for time to have "begun" there must have been a period where nothing at all existed which is impossible.

fpla83 · Almost a regular Joined: 01 May 2004 Posts: 40 Gender:

wrote that last post on the fly, hah, horrific grammar. Excuse me.


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