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God and I, Me and the gods, what Religion means to Me

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Dissident Heart

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God and I, Me and the gods, what Religion means to Me

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Okay folks, where do you see yourself fitting in...can you think of another alternative than these 10?1. All gods are fake, bogus, and nonsense- in all places, at all times, and in all circumstances.2. Only my God is true, all others, in all places, at all times, and in all other circumstances, are bogus and false.3. All Religions imperfectly and incompletely point to the one true God, which is not entirely present in any one Religion.4. All Religions are essentially the same, with slight differences due to geography and historical circumstances.5. All Religions are false and ridiculous superstition, no matter the geography or historical cricusmtances.6. There are many gods, but they are all subservient to the one true God, thus I am a Henotheist.7. No one knows enough about all that has been, is, or will ever be to provide any meaningful knowledge regarding the existence or non-existence of a God or gods.8. God is just another word for 'everything in all places and at all times'.9. I don't need to carefully study the multiple ways that humanity has addressed the complex issues of gods/God...I already know all there is worth knowing on the subject.10. I am eager to learn more, examine more, exlpore more, and perhaps gain deeper and further insight into the issue, and am willing to change my mind based upon better knowledge- no matter the source.
Doc Tiessen

God and I

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Hi Diss,If I would only be allowed to choose from your ten options, I would take option 3 and 10But I would be glad to add option 11) God is just another word for randomness. It is a timeless, spaceless, energyless and massless entity that makes choices and creates diversity in the universe. It is an uncaused first cause. Religions imperfectely point to an Image of God that has been created for political, social and moral reasons to rule societies and countries. Diversity is Good!
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Dissident Heart

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Re: God and I

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Quote:Randomness...It is a timeless, spaceless, energyless and massless entity that makes choices and creates diversity in the universe.How is a timeless something-or-other able to impact time, or a spaceless who-really-knows-what able to touch space, or an energyless thing-a-majig able to spark energy, or a massless kinda-thing able to move mass? What is it within-inside of-about this non-thing that makes choices- that percieves, arranges, analyzes, selects, decides, makes choices?How does this creator-less source-of-creativity create?As I see it, when you introduce a choosing and creating component, there is something Personal going on...a type of Sentience, Knowing, Thinking taking place. Thus, perhaps, a Sentient Person which Knows and Thinks?And, I think I am closest to #3 and #10 as well.
Doc Tiessen

Re: God and I

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Quote:How is a timeless something-or-other able to impact time, or a spaceless who-really-knows-what able to touch space, or an energyless thing-a-majig able to spark energy, or a massless kinda-thing able to move mass? Diss, I see that you are really amazed by Randomness. I am also. And you wonder why I call it God? It is really divine and misterious.The thing about timeless, energyless and massless story is quite easy to understand... there are many physical entities that have this characteristics... entropy, light, gravitation force, electric field, complexity, beauty, etc...The really, really interesting thing property is about choice. How does it make choices?As you correctly mentioned, in order to create there must be choice. Unlike gravitation, entropy or energy, which do not make choices, randomness is the entity that makes choices. It decides the position of all electrons and quarks of the universe. It decides if and when an atom will decay radioactively. It decides when and how much energy would have the Big Bang? It decides how much matter and antimatter should come from vacuum... and if it decides (as he did during the Big Bang) to make more matter than antimatter. It also decided the ratio of elecromagnetic to gravitational force... it decided how fast should the universum expand...And it decides when you will die... and when you will win the lottery. There nothing else in scientific theories that explains which entity is making all these choices... and I say, it is randomness. And because it is so splendidly powerful and beautiful, I say it is God.You want to ask a question to God? Roll the dices, thats his answer. But remember, God is not interested in doing well or caring for your ethical concerns.Quote:As I see it, when you introduce a choosing and creating component, there is something Personal going on...a type of Sentience, Knowing, Thinking taking place. Thus, perhaps, a Sentient Person which Knows and Thinks?Do not personisify God. It is not a person. It is not an emotion. It does not think, feel, or hate and it is not intelligent.If you want a better world with less wars, more peace, better education, higher ethical values, democracy... That is your job! The humanist mission of intelligent persons like us. It is not the job of God. He only cares for beauty and diversity. Diversity is Good!
booper54

Re: God and I

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Right now, I think I would fall in categories #8 and #10. I don't believe in God as anything more than nature itself. I believe anything to the contrary is contradictory, such as a supernatural or infinite God. But I'm still learning and thinking about it, as I hope everybody is, so I also fall in category #10.
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Chris OConnor

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Re: God and I

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DissidentI'm not entirely satisfied with the wording of any of the available options, so I'll tweak #1 a bit...Quote:1. All gods are fake, bogus, and nonsense- in all places, at all times, and in all circumstances.My version:When examined critically and without emotion all of the claims of God that I have been exposed to appear to be fake, bogus, nonsense, and gleaming examples of what weak mindw will do to resolve internal conflict. Humans desire to solve, conquer and understand their environment. This quality is of survival benefit, so doing away with it is not in our best interest. But seeing as there are some questions that we do not yet have answers for...some people create imaginary answers. All known claims or God are mans effort to fabricate an answer and pacify an insatiable desire to know the unknwon.Chris "Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world." - Nelson Mandella
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Dissident Heart

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It and You

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Quote:Do not personisify God. It is not a person. It is not an emotion. It does not think, feel, or hate and it is not intelligent.Doc,I'm wondering if this quoted approach to the God issue would be something like:14. There is only one way to understand, think about, describe and makes sense of God- and it's my way.I've already addressed in some detail the problems I have with addressing God as 'it' and the value in relating to God as 'You' in the "Belief in God" thread. When the most precious, valuable, wondrous and awesome dimension of existence is a 'You', then those elements of intimacy, cooperation, collaboration, solidarity and love are called to respond- pulled out of our selves, and lifted to a place of sacred importance.Seeing the source, foundation, direction and binding power of existence as simply an 'It', as I see the issue, supports a general 'thingification' of life...impersonal objects to be utilized as things, reduced to merely 'its'.
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Dissident Heart

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Re: God and I

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Chris,Would this be a fair paraphrase of your tweaking of option 1?"With imagination silenced, creativity shut up, hope and longing put to rest, and any trace of love set aside- it is clear that weak folks unable to face the cold, hard and nasty facts of reality, not being strong enough to deal with it rationally and with only science to lead the way...have deluded themselves into believing their own fabrications which distort a natural desire to know and understand the world."
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Re: God and I

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Hey Doc, I hope that this hasn't been touched on anywhere, but I found this snippet online. Since 1998, the Global Consciousness Project has been monitoring the outputs of up to 40 random number generators (RNGs) around the world. Each of these RNGs generates 200 bits of random data every second and sends them to a server at the GCP. The generators are based on physical devices considered fundamentally random, not merely deterministic computer algorithms.Humans created those computers. in a sense, humans are able to harness the power of randomness. Assumably, this makes no difference to what you believe. I was just wondering on your thoughts.Also, determinism can be applied to much of the universe. I don't believe randomness to be all encompassing. I do believe that randomness exists in certain circumstances though.
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Dissident Heart

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Re: God and I

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Interbane, Perhaps, in the context of this thread, you might be of the school of thought that says:15. No matter what we say, think, or do about or with or at God- we are pre-determined to do so.
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