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Ancient Apocalypse: Fact of Fantasy?

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Chris OConnor

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Ancient Apocalypse: Fact of Fantasy?

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(I'm not sure which forum I should place this post as it pertains to ancient history, archaeology and religion. So here it shall sit.)

Is anyone watching Graham Hancock's Netflix series, Ancient Apocalypse? I'm especially interested in hearing what you think, Robert Tulip. I'm just starting the 6th episode, and he has some seriously compelling arguments. But the science community does indeed seem to consider him a bit of a quack. What's your opinion? This question is for anyone watching the series.
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Robert Tulip

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Re: Ancient Apocalypse: Fact of Fantasy?

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Hi Chris

Graham Hancock is a very interesting writer. Some years ago I read his main books Heavens Gate and Keepers of Genesis. I have participated at his forum, which is quite active, but the whole field of alternative history is unfortunately full of cranks, and that makes finding rational dialogue quite rare. Cranks make it impossible for any alternative idea to get public attention, since the natural suspicion caused by the failure of fantasy nonsense discounts the possibility of genuine evidence emerging. Hancock got himself censored by TED for promoting ayawaska - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0c5nIvJH7w

Hancock argues that extensive evidence shows human culture through the Pleistocene was more advanced than is generally recognised. The support for this idea includes the observation that human brains have been at their current size for 100,000 years, and we do not have any understanding of what people used these big brains for for such a long time. I find Hancock's work on the pyramids of Egypt particularly important as they have so many major unexplained mysteries. Also, the fact that sea level rose by 400 feet after the last glacial maximum indicates that the whole of human life by the sea from that time was obliterated by the flood.

My interest in this material includes its continuity in secret oral tradition with the construction of the Gospel story that we now have in the Bible. My view is that a lost astronomical knowledge is central to the evolution of the Christ Myth, but our dominant view of technological progress automatically excludes this information from popular view.

The Ancient Apocalypse link on his site is https://grahamhancock.com/ancient-apocalypse/
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Re: Ancient Apocalypse: Fact of Fantasy?

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Very interesting Ted talk. I've been interested in such things for a long time, ready Aldous Huxley's The Doors of Perception & Heaven and Hell many decades ago. But I've been afraid to try it. Ya never know, perhaps you would become the next Timothy Leary, Richard Alpert / Ram Dass, or Grateful Dead groupie. Or drop acid, travel to Tibet, and return as a Buddhist monk as many have done. I don't want to do that.

Sam Harris may be a counter argument. Perceived as a level headed agnostic neurologist, he describes several hallucinogens in great detail from experience in his book Waking Up - A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion. Now that I'm much older and retired, perhaps it's time to blow up my cosmology. :P
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Chris OConnor

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Re: Ancient Apocalypse: Fact of Fantasy?

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I've now finished watching the Graham Hancock series on Netflix and also a video that offers a critique of every episode in that series.

Please check out Critiquing every episode of Ancient Apocalypse by Stefan Milo. The video is over 2 hours long, but if you watch at 1.25% or 1.5% for the first 45 minutes, that will shorten the video considerably. Once he gets into the actual critique of each episode, I'd slow down to normal speed and really absorb his reasoning.
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LanDroid

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Re: Ancient Apocalypse: Fact of Fantasy?

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After watching the series by Graham Hancock and the critique by Stefan Milo, what are your conclusions Sensei O'Connor?
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Robert Tulip

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Re: Ancient Apocalypse: Fact of Fantasy?

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Chris OConnor wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:12 pm Please check out Critiquing every episode of Ancient Apocalypse by Stefan Milo.
Hi Chris
Thanks for this. I am watching it now. My points of sympathy with Hancock are that Pleistocene civilization must have had advanced astronomy in some locations, not including telescopes or other technology, just visual, and developed an understanding of the relation between climate and astronomy over tens of thousands of years, notably in India. I think if there was agriculture or other more advanced technology there would be archaeological traces. I also think this older culture began to die out before the Younger Dryas, which occurred after the sea level had risen from the Last Glacial Maximum. I see the rise of the sea by 300 feet from 20,000 to 10,000 BC as the great disruptor of the Pleistocene culture across Eurasia. Milo's point that DNA and agriculture would reveal global travel is correct, and indicates this did not occur.

With Atlantis, the only possibility in my view is that it was a marine civilization, living in floating cities, made by aliens who built the pyramids. The Giza pyramids are so far beyond human evolutionary capacity, and they have the appearance of beacons from an extraterrestrial visit, far before conventional dating in the Egyptian Kingdoms. I don't present this as a strong view, it is just I can't see how or why humans could have built them, especially the accuracy, scale, design and air tubes. I don't agree with Milo's claim that there is any evidence humans could have built them.

On Milo's claim that the existence of early astronomy is not falsifiable, my interest is how precession of the equinoxes became embedded in mythology. The only way this could have happened in my opinion is that humans were aware of the movement of the equinoxes against the seasons over tens of thousands of years. This is well reflected in the Indian myth of the Yuga cycle between Golden and Iron Ages, on the same 24ky time scale as the perihelion orbital driver of sea level and glaciation and temperature.

I don't think Milo understands the flood myth. The fact that sea level rose by 300 feet is sufficient to generate these stories around the world. It makes far more sense that all the stories came from this real slow cataclysm than Milo's suggestion that it only arose with migration out of the Middle East. During the Ice Age most people would have lived by the sea, but almost all evidence of this was obliterated by sea level rise.
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Chris OConnor

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Re: Ancient Apocalypse: Fact of Fantasy?

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LanDroid wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:03 pm After watching the series by Graham Hancock and the critique by Stefan Milo, what are your conclusions Sensei O'Connor?
In my humble opinion, Graham Hancock is doing the world a great service by challenging established theories and academic knowledge. We need people like Graham Hancock. He's pointing the spotlight on possible gaps and errors in our historical records. I've had many conversations with good friends, over even better drinks, about UFO's and ancient civilizations. Wouldn't it be exciting to learn of a long-lost ancient advanced society that mysteriously died out and left little to no trace of having ever existed? Imagine Atlantis or something even more sophisticated. It's exciting as hell. And therein lies the problem. We want it to be true.

Our desire to find this cool piece of history shouldn't cloud our judgment and cause us to jump to conclusions. All of Graham Hancock's most convincing ideas seem to be easily ripped apart by scientists that have the credentials in the relevant fields, more academic experience than Graham, and less of an incentive to lie, lie by omission or just twist the facts. Graham sells books and movies and has a massive following that thrives on his conspiracy theories and controversial ideas. The scientists that refute him are far more convincing than Graham. At least they are to me.

I hope some of what Graham Hancock says ends up being true, but so far I think he is wrong about just about everything. That's me, as a layperson, speaking without any level of certainty. He just hasn't overcome the objections everyone presents to his ideas. I'm open to that changing over time. I'm rooting for Hancock.
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Re: Ancient Apocalypse: Fact of Fantasy?

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I'm still excited by the idea of Atlantis and have not formed any solid opinions on whether it existed or not. Isn't our only record of Atlantis from Plato's Timaeus & Critias? Occam's Razor tells me that the people of Ancient Greece were probably more like us than we currently realize, and even back then, they had a desire to believe in fantastic stories and myths. More than likely, Atlantis was just a fun story to tell. It was pure entertainment. Notice I say more than likely. (Occam's Razor) This is not my position. I'm simply left to deduce and speculate based on just about no evidence in either direction.

I must have missed where they said the sea went up by 300 feet. You're right. That would have wiped out just about all traces of ancient civilizations. I thought I heard Milos saying the sea level increase was less drastic than Hancock purports.
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Robert Tulip

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Re: Ancient Apocalypse: Fact of Fantasy?

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Here is the map of the 300 foot rise of sea level that I consider the basis of flood myths. The markers are mainly from sunken coral reefs that used to be at sea level.
Source https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _Level.png

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