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Ender's Game - Chapters 13 through 15

#25: April - June 2006 (Fiction)
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Chris OConnor

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Ender's Game - Chapters 13 through 15

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Ender's Game - Chapters 13 through 15Use this thread for discussing Chapters 13 through 15, or create and use your own threads. Edited by: Chris OConnor  at: 4/10/06 4:51 pm
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riverc0il
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Re: Ender's Game - Chapters 13 through 15

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Yea, what a great book! Just finished the book in three days and I could hardly put it down. The ending is just fantastic, so many kicks in the pants. Especially when Ender learns that the entire issue was a communication problem (which I think was eluded to before it was revealed at the end? am I remembering that right? Rackham and Ender perhaps discussing the fact that the humans and buggers could not communicate so could not determine each other's intent). The switch over from game to reality was killer (literally and figuratively!)! Looking forward to reading the sequels. Edited by: Chris OConnor  at: 4/10/06 4:54 pm
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Re: Ender's Game - Chapters 13 through 15

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Fantastic book!This book seems to take on the notion that the military takes our kids, trains them using 'games' and lies to them about what they are really being trained to do. The criticism is harsh against the ideas that we only strike in self-defense.Ender was a dupe after all. Lied to by his 'superiors' to commit genocide against an enemy that they assumed they knew but actually never bothered to engage in any attempt at understanding.Were the bugger totally innocent in this matter? The queen alludes to a mistake that they made and how they desired to correct that mistake. Did any human 'leaders' understand this at all, or were they truley acting in self-defense? Was this mainly a colonization effort? A manifest destiny?Great book.Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper
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Re: Ender's Game - Chapters 13 through 15

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It's a shame that this reading isn't getting more attention. I'll try to pick up a copy and re-read it if I can think to do so. I've got a lot of stuff going on the next few weeks, though, so it may be a while before I get around to it.
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Re: Ender's Game - Chapters 13 through 15

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Yeah I was beginning to think this was a dead conversation. I am going to TRY to collect more thoughts and post away, but if there are no responses, that will get old quick.Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper
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Re: Ender's Game - Chapters 13 through 15

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Quote:Were the bugger totally innocent in this matter? The queen alludes to a mistake that they made and how they desired to correct that mistake. Did any human 'leaders' understand this at all, or were they truley acting in self-defense?It has been a few years since I read this, but my understanding was that the humans had no way of knowing that the buggers felt they made a mistake. I've read every book in the series, now, and I believe the humans were so terrified at inevitably being attacked again, that they felt the human attack would be the only way to ensure human survival. On the same token, the humans didn't realize they were going to have to commit zenocide. Ender, of course, thought it was just another test, so he wasn't thinking of the moral implications. "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody is watching." -- Keller Williams
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Re: Ender's Game - Chapters 13 through 15

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I think the humans actually PLANNED the Xenocide. I mean, they knew about the queen and how if the queen is killed, the rest die as well. They planned a direct assault on the home planet, where the queens were.Does this scenario speak to human against human war? I mean...iis Card saying that we do not listen or try to understand each other before going off and attacking? Is this an example of what we are going through today?I do not mean this from an Amercentric POV...misunderstanding works both ways after all.Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper
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Re: Ender's Game - Chapters 13 through 15

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I think Mr. P is correct, the leaders planned for Ender to nail the queen and wipe out the entire race.
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Re: Ender's Game - Chapters 13 through 15

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Hive queen is correct to though...in that the humans did not realize that the buggers were sorry and trying to make amends. They just did not care enough to even consider it though. It was easier to destroy the danger than try to understand it and work toward diplomatic channels. The danger felt was too overwhelming...so the best solution was to eradicate it. Also..the earth in this story is over-populated...we simply need to move out and colonize...it is mentioned that colonizing Buggers worlds would be easy, since most of the framework is laid out and useable by humans. It was purely self interest.And ahh...the Discussion questions I posted have jarred a point I had marked off to bring up (I do not have the book with me at this time). The conversation between Dink and Ender as well as the videos of the 2nd invasion (sparse scenes of a seemingly easy victory) that tipped me off that the buggers were not a threat...that it was "the adults" that were the enemy (due to the adults lying to them).All too familiar throught our history, no?Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.Once you perceive the irrevocable truth, you can no longer justify the irrational denial. - Mr. P.The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy PiperEdited by: misterpessimistic  at: 5/1/06 1:22 pm
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Re: Ender's Game - Chapters 13 through 15

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Mr.P, i have no idea what you are talking about. our great country would never go to war and attack another country that was not really a threat.
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