• In total there are 4 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 4 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 789 on Tue Mar 19, 2024 5:08 am

American Gods Question 1: Which themes affected you and why?

#68: May - July 2009 (Fiction)
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6499
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2719 times
Been thanked: 2662 times
Contact:
Australia

American Gods Question 1: Which themes affected you and why?

Unread post

American Gods Reading-group Discussion Question One

American Gods is an epic novel dealing with many big themes, including sacrifice, loyalty, betrayal, love and faith. Which theme affected you most strongly, and why?
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6499
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2719 times
Been thanked: 2662 times
Contact:
Australia

Re: American Gods Question 1: Which themes affected you and

Unread post

Robert Tulip wrote:American Gods Reading-group Discussion Question One

American Gods is an epic novel dealing with many big themes, including sacrifice, loyalty, betrayal, love and faith. Which theme affected you most strongly, and why?
I really enjoyed American Gods, more than any novel I have read recently, because it engages with big existential themes of identity and foreboding by creating a believable fantasy counterworld grounded in major human traditions. Of the themes raised in this question, the treatment of sacrifice affected me most strongly.

I have also been reading books by Acharya S, including Suns of God, where she points out how strongly the theme of sacrifice is imbedded in world religions, with scapegoating and crucifixion dominant practices in the Middle East and elsewhere for thousands of years. These themes were encapsulated in the unifying myth of the cross of Christ as a once for all sacrifice to expaite human sin. Gaiman does not believe it, and sees the older pagan Gods as embodying a natural order, but retaining the dark demand for sacrifice that is at the centre of Christianity.

At one point, Gaiman notes that contemporary indifference to death by car crash seems like a fatalistic acceptance of human sacrifice.

Shadow is a sacrificial figure. As he emerges from prison to news of the death of his wife Laura, he has nothing. His agreement with Wednesday (Odin) to serve as factotum reflects a 'nothing left to lose' sense of indifference to fate. The circumstances of Laura's death cut him off from every hope he had, leaving a bleak emptiness in which his sacrifice of his life to years of prison has been for nothing.

Through the course of the book the theme of sacrifice takes on epic dimensions. Central to the Norse mythology was the sacrificial death of Odin, hung on the world ash tree and pierced by a mistletoe spear. Gaiman weaves this crucifixion-like theme into his story, around the big plot of the plan of the old Gods to confront the new Gods of technology.
User avatar
Suzanne

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Book General
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:51 pm
14
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 399 times

Oh no!

Unread post

Robert Tulip wrote:
Central to the Norse mythology was the sacrificial death of Odin, hung on the world ash tree and pierced by a mistletoe spear.
Egads! If I have correctly identified the elephant sitting in the corner, I believe I see a spoiler in the above sentance.

My appologies, it's not polite to question a god. :laugh:

See, I got your joke.
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6499
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2719 times
Been thanked: 2662 times
Contact:
Australia

Re: Oh no!

Unread post

Suzanne wrote:I see a spoiler in the above sentence.
No, it is not a spoiler. I am referring to the Norse myth of Odin. Readers will have to find out for themselves how this myth appears in the book, and if Wednesday dies like in the myth of Odin.

Would talking about the death of Jesus be a spoiler for readers of the Bible?
Last edited by Robert Tulip on Thu May 21, 2009 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Suzanne

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Book General
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:51 pm
14
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 399 times

American gods

Unread post

Hello Robert:

Odin was pierced by his own spear, I thought his spear was made out of metal.

It just reminded me of somegody else.
User avatar
Suzanne

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Book General
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:51 pm
14
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 399 times

mistletoe

Unread post

Balder or Baldur, in Norse mythology, the god of light and joy, son of Odin and Frigga, king and queen of the gods. Having dreamed that Balder's life was threatened, Frigga extracted an oath from the forces and objects in nature, animate and inaminate, that they would not harm Balder, but she forgot the mistletoe. The gods, thinking Balder safe, cast darts and stones at him. The malicious giant Loki put a twig of mistletoe in the hands of Balder's twin, the blind Hoder, god of darkness, and directed his aim against Balder, who fell pierced to the heart. After the death of Balder, Odin sent another son, the messenger Hermod, to the underworld to plead for Balder's return. The god would be released only if everything in the world would weep for him. Everything wept except one old woman in a cave, and Balder could not return to life.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761 ... alder.html
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6499
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2719 times
Been thanked: 2662 times
Contact:
Australia

Re: American gods

Unread post

Suzanne wrote:Hello Robert:

Odin was pierced by his own spear, I thought his spear was made out of metal.

It just reminded me of somegody else.
The God dying on a tree motif is a big theme in Christianity, with Jesus Christ dying on the cross derived from a range of ancient religions from Egypt, Babylon and India. Odin's death on the world tree Yggdrasil in the Norse myth is connected to these other dying saviours.

Somegody is a nice neologism. :D
User avatar
Suzanne

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Book General
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:51 pm
14
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 399 times

themes, and theme parks

Unread post

I think that Gaiman is not only saying that the gods from other countries have been forgotten, but the culture and customs are being forgotten as well. One of the foods provided to Shadow (the rice and beef stuffed in cabbage) is a dish my mother made for my Ukranian father. My father was first generation, and as a child the culture from the Ukrain was very present in my house. The crafts, and dances and songs from my father's childhood were remembered and passed down. However, I do have to admit, that I no longer cook the dishes of the Ukranian culture, nor have I introduced other customs of this culture to my children. I am guilty, I have forgotten, and I am sure this may cause Czernobog to be very angry with me.

An example of this would be the replacement of the road side attractions and "mom and pop" establishments with larger "strip malls" and big amusement parks. I liked the way Shadow said he would rather have the road side attractions to the strip malls. The United States is a melting pot, and the cultures and customs of our ancestors have been boiled away.
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6499
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2719 times
Been thanked: 2662 times
Contact:
Australia

Re: themes, and theme parks

Unread post

Suzanne wrote:I think that Gaiman is not only saying that the gods from other countries have been forgotten, but the culture and customs are being forgotten as well. One of the foods provided to Shadow (the rice and beef stuffed in cabbage) is a dish my mother made for my Ukranian father. My father was first generation, and as a child the culture from the Ukrain was very present in my house. The crafts, and dances and songs from my father's childhood were remembered and passed down. However, I do have to admit, that I no longer cook the dishes of the Ukranian culture, nor have I introduced other customs of this culture to my children. I am guilty, I have forgotten, and I am sure this may cause Czernobog to be very angry with me.

An example of this would be the replacement of the road side attractions and "mom and pop" establishments with larger "strip malls" and big amusement parks. I liked the way Shadow said he would rather have the road side attractions to the strip malls. The United States is a melting pot, and the cultures and customs of our ancestors have been boiled away.
Hi Suzanne, Czernobog is a brilliant character. Just watch out for his hammer. I wonder if he is linked to Thor?

Seriously, the boiling dry of the melting pot, to continue your metaphor for the USA, seems to be a central theme in American Gods.

I heard a radio interview today about how the consumerist ideology of the advertising industry is facing the problem that people are less convinced that buying things will make them happy. I get more happiness thinking about Czernobog working in an abattoir in Illinois than from listening to advertising. Czernobog is lucky he has the Norns to look after him. He reminds me of Joseph Stalin.

The melting pot, e pluribus unum, suggests that people leave their old world differences and cultures behind them to participate in the American dream. Gaiman is arguing that the dream needs to tend its roots.
User avatar
Suzanne

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Book General
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:51 pm
14
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 399 times

Themes

Unread post

Robert Tulip wrote:
Czernobog is a brilliant character. Just watch out for his hammer. I wonder if he is linked to Thor?
Thor is Czernobog's son, and the hammer belongs to Thor. The hammer is made of the same material as Odin's spear, uru.

I have noticed that Thanksgiving, a true American holiday is dissapearing. Christmas comes in July in many stores, and Thanksgiving is just passed over to the "gods" of merchandising. Maybe the spooks are related to Macy and Penny.
Post Reply

Return to “American Gods: A Novel - by Neil Gaiman”