• In total there are 2 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 2 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 729 on Tue Mar 19, 2024 2:33 am

Ch. 3: A Short Digression on the Pig; or, Why Heaven....

#64: Mar. - May 2009 (Non-Fiction)
User avatar
Chris OConnor

1A - OWNER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 17016
Joined: Sun May 05, 2002 2:43 pm
21
Location: Florida
Has thanked: 3507 times
Been thanked: 1310 times
Gender:
Contact:
United States of America

Ch. 3: A Short Digression on the Pig; or, Why Heaven....

Unread post

God is Not Great

Ch. 3: A Short Digression on the Pig; or, Why Heaven Hates Ham


User avatar
DWill

1H - GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6966
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:05 am
16
Location: Luray, Virginia
Has thanked: 2262 times
Been thanked: 2470 times

Unread post

Just a brief comment: when I think of irrationality in connection with religion, these senseless prohibitions come to mind. I don't think that belief in God qualifies as irrational, though. Non-rational, but not irrational.
User avatar
Interbane

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 7203
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:59 am
19
Location: Da U.P.
Has thanked: 1105 times
Been thanked: 2166 times
United States of America

Unread post

Perhaps it is rational, irrational, and non-rational.
Dr Paradise
Almost Comfortable
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:27 pm
15

Unread post

What amazes me is the number of people who tell about the woes of Tibet and have never been there. The same goes for heaven. how can anyone describe the indescribable? If a person has concrete evidence, then we can talk. Most of the experts on a subject like this are speaking without a tongue, an eye or even a recent visit. Good luck. I haven't been there yet either, but my opinion doesn't count, If I did have a say, I would tell you that no one knows, no one is supposed to know and until we get a password, we won't even get a chance to visit. I love my recent life, but I love the prospect of my total life as well. I have never had a problem, I have never had a worry, everything has been temporary in my 3/4 of a centenial lifetime. I love discussions of this nature, but it is much better with those who have been there. Thanks for being there. Dr M
User avatar
Interbane

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 7203
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:59 am
19
Location: Da U.P.
Has thanked: 1105 times
Been thanked: 2166 times
United States of America

Unread post

Dr. M: "I love discussions of this nature, but it is much better with those who have been there."

Are you speaking of Tibet or heaven? I'm always annoyed at pastors who describe heaven as being made of chocolate and paved with gold, especially when heaven most likely doesn't even exist! Kids playing with fantasies... :laugh: very similar our thread here: http://booktalk.org/post45621.html#45621
User avatar
DWill

1H - GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6966
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:05 am
16
Location: Luray, Virginia
Has thanked: 2262 times
Been thanked: 2470 times

Unread post

Interbane wrote:Perhaps it is rational, irrational, and non-rational.
I'll buy that.
User avatar
Lois
Master Debater
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:36 am
15
Location: Minneapolis
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Unread post

I found this chapter to be very interesting. I had never thought about why pork is forbidden in the Old Testament. Or why, all of the sudden it was okay in the New Testament, for that matter. I think Hitchens does a great job of analyzing the taboo and I think his conclusion is right on. He writes…

“I claim my own solution as original, though without the help of Sir James Frazier and the great Jim Warraq I might not have hit upon it. According to many ancient authorities, the attitude of early Semites to swine was one of reverence as much as disgust. The eating of pig flesh was considered as something special, even privileged and ritualistic. (This mad confusion between the sacred and the profane is found in all faiths at all times.) The simultaneous attraction and repulsion derived from an anthropomorphic root: the look of the pig, and the taste of the pig, and the dying yells of the pig, and the evident intelligence of the pig, were too uncomfortably reminiscent of the human. Porcophobia — and porcophilia — thus probably originate in a nightmare of human sacrifice and even cannibalism at which the ‘holy’ texts often do more than hint.”

Simply put, killing a pig is a little too close for comfort, and it goes without saying that at that time seeing animals slaughtered was most likely a commonplace occurrence. I just read an article that covers this same topic, in a very different context. It seems that there is a reality show in the UK in which the star of the show spent four days in a pig pen on a farm while being constantly taped. The write up about it is sometimes funny, but also revealing of Hitchens’ conclusion.
The actor, Richard da Costa writes
“On my last day I visited an abattoir to see how pigs are exterminated on a massive scale. I was put through the whole process with the pigs and it was absolutely clear to me that they had a very good idea that life was taking a significant turn for the worse. You only had to listen to the screaming.”

The entire article is found here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7998780.stm
User avatar
Suzanne

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Book General
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:51 pm
14
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 399 times

God is not great

Unread post

I am late getting into this discusion, but after reading the posts on this book, I think I will rush out and buy it today. I'll try to get up to speed as quickly as I can, I don't want to be left behind.
User avatar
johnson1010
Tenured Professor
Posts: 3564
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:35 pm
14
Location: Michigan
Has thanked: 1280 times
Been thanked: 1128 times

Unread post

anyone else notice that many popular descriptions of heaven seem to entail EVERYTHING you arent supposed to be doing here on earth?

Streets paved with gold is popular. Everyone gets a mansion. Muslims supposedly get 72 virgins (are the virgins in heaven, or hell?)
User avatar
Thomas Hood
Genuinely Genius
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:21 pm
16
Location: Wyse Fork, NC
Been thanked: 1 time

Unread post

Lois wrote:. . . why pork is forbidden in the Old Testament.
Hitchens is ignorant of Hebrew history. Solomon's Temple was a big, bloody abattoir, and modern sentiments against blood sacrifice are a modern innovation.

There are numerous theories for the pork taboo, including:

1. The pig was sacred to Saturn, and Hebrew religion began as the worship of Saturn, the outermost planet. Since Genesis 1 and the Ten Commandments are of a cosmological origin, the theory is plausible.

2. Pigs spoil waterholes. In a hot, dry climate, the nomadic Hebrews were often compelled to drink from water contaminated with pig wastes.

3. The Taboo against Pork was a way for Hebrews to distinguish themselves from their neighbors, a theory once favored by anthropologists.
Post Reply

Return to “God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything - by Christopher Hitchens”